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i have to start with a little bit of a

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confession

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this channel has been extremely or

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recently become extremely popular among

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those who are interested in the

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phenomenon of ufos

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but it's not a ufo channel per se it's a

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channel oriented toward

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the foundational aspects of our universe

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and investigating it from the vantage

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point of

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philosophy psychology mathematics and

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even theoretical physics

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luckily i spoke to a few of the

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ufologists who recently subscribed to

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the channel

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and they reassured me that people who

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are interested in ufos tend to be

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open-minded and interested in the topics

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of theoretical physics and philosophy

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anyway this quelled my initial

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trepidation

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but i wanted to bring it up regardless

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because if what you're expecting

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is mere ufo content i don't want you to

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be disappointed while i'm not a

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mathematician nor a physicist

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i was trained as such and that's where i

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tend to be most comfortable but

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unlike most of the scientific community

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the topics of free will

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god ufos the paranormal in general

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aren't topics that is chew but instead i

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revel in

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if one is to make progress toward a

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theory of everything my bet is that

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innovation will come from the fringes

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what you're about to watch is a

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conversation between

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jacques valet a computer scientist

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venture capitalist and ufologist one of

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the most

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credible the link is below and professor

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kevin knuth is a computational physicist

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as well as the editor-in-chief of

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entropy journal he's also one of the few

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physicists

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publish regarding the veritality

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of the ufo phenomenon to use a fun word

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i'm an abc darian and that has its

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advantages as well as disadvantages

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now the disadvantage is obviously that

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i'll be asking questions

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generally that are sophomoric and

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unfledged such as

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how does the freedom of information act

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work and why do aliens

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look like us or us like them at least

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broadly morphologically and there were

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some criticisms

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rightly so of my interview with jeremy

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corbell of me

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not knowing much about the topic and

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that's true however one of the large

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advantages is that

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a question that seems obvious is no

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longer one that occurs to the seasoned

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individual and thus a fresh perspective

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can be gotten to by asking it another

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advantage a meta advantage is that you

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get to watch someone who's

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classically trained as a mathematical

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physicist

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go through a constitutional change in

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world view in real time

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a regular theo locution on this channel

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is about getting two individuals with

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contrary viewpoints to hash it out

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in a manner that's not dislogistic but

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instead constructive and even

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loving someone said it's not a live

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stream it's a love stream and that's

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true

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however in this case both professor

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kevin knuth and jacques valet

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agree on far more than they disagree the

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sponsor of today's podcast is

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algo algo is an end-to-end supply chain

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optimization software company

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with software that helps business users

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optimize sales and operations

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planning to avoid stockouts reduce

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returns and inventory write downs

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while reducing inventory investment it's

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a supply chain ai

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that drives smart ioi headed by a bright

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individual by the name of amjad hussein

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amjad in fact contributed some of the

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questions to today's theo locution

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and he's been a huge supporter of the

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podcast since nearly its inception

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in fact the reason i'm standing right

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now is because i was able to afford

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a standing desk based purely on amjad's

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contribution to this channel to help

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engender a work environment where i can

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just

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simply focus on work and not the

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extraneous aspects like

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my back hurting for example another

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supporter of the podcast is brilliant

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you can subscribe to brilliant.org toe

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t-o-e

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if you'd like twenty percent off their

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annual subscription and i'll be speaking

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more on that

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later if you'd like to hear more

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conversations like this then please do

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consider supporting

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at patreon.com i've also recently opened

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up a crypto account and a paypal account

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and if you like

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you can donate there i plan on having

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many more conversations like this

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at the end of august there's going to be

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yoshibak and donald hoffman coming up

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at the end of this month i'm speaking to

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chris langan he's the person who has

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reportedly the highest iq in america and

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has a theory of everything called the

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cognitive theoretic model of the

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universe

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there's also a discord with the link in

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the description

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if you'd like to discuss the topics in

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this podcast or other podcast in real

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time

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to chat with other people who are like

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yourself thank you so much

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and enjoy hello how's it going

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very good how are you good good to see

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you

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to this

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say hello to the audience hey good

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morning or

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good afternoon wherever you are thank

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you for the

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invitation i gave a

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tedx uh talk uh a few years ago

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about uh theories of uh

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everything else um

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because theories of everything that's

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not big enough you know you

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you really have to look at the at the

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boundaries

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and and so what i'll be talking about

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maybe not everything else but something

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else

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that sure you know came came out of the

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sky

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so why don't you talk about your new

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book if you can give a synopsis of it

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within

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four minutes yes um the

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the book is called uh trinity

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um the best kept secret

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and it's about a case of uh

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the recovery of an object that was never

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identified

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by the army and the army air force this

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was before the

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air force existed in august 1945

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within days of the capitulation of japan

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and it's hard to imagine that

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that particular event wasn't in some way

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linked to the end of world war ii and

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to the first atomic bomb and to the

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emergence of

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our civilization into

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essentially the nuclear age

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what happened is that simply two

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uh two boys were working in a field

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for their father uh on a large property

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in new mexico

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within 20 miles of ground zero and

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they saw something fall

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so this is an exceptional case because

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the witnesses were there

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before the object happened this is not

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like roswell where

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you know debris was found a few days

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later they were there

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they saw it happen we have corroborating

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evidence from a pilot

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that was going in for landing at

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alamogordo

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and saw the whole thing the object was

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essentially an egg-shaped uh object it

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was not a flying saucer

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like people described it was egg shaped

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and the the two witnesses

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uh one of whom is still alive uh very

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much alive and

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part of our investigation um

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were there on the spot for the next

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eight days

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while the military were recovering

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that object and taking it away

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so it's an exceptional story that gives

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us

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an opportunity to do some at least some

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good physics

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and and to tie together all the

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parameters of the of the testimony of

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the evidence

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what do you mean when you say gives you

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the opportunity to do good physics

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the uh the the object was intact

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when it blended it it crash landed

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but under control which is it

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it didn't blow up like an airplane would

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have

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it hit a communication tower which was

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one of

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three communication towers around white

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the white the whole white sands

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area the area is still technically

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within the military confines of white

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sands which

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as you know is is as large as two

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american states it's a very very large

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uh

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test area for the military

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this was again three weeks after the

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explosion of the first a bomb

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and um the

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three people actually entered into

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the craft while it was lying there

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so we have testimony not only of people

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who

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saw it the the traces uh the

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some of the data that was recovered from

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inside the object

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but we also have day by day

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accounts which is in in in the book of

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what happened what the military had to

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do to recover it

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so we have a good approximation of the

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weight the volume

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the size of the thing and we can compare

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it to

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other cases in the literature that have

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been studied by

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um officially by the air force the

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french air force or the american air

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force

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at other places so again i come into

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this as an

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information scientist not not as a

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physicist although

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i am a lapsed astrophysicist you know

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from my days

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at the university of texas and at

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northwestern but

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my most of my contribution here

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is as part of a team of people looking

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looking at the information structures

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among a number of cases like that

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what is its weight and volume compared

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to others and also when you say

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physics do you mean to say material

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engineering or physics as in theoretical

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physics

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is

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left to to the student you know

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uh to to develop um we don't know

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where it comes from uh it was not

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tracked

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as far as we know by any radar as it was

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coming in according to

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mr jose padilla who's our main witness

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today

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uh it he believes that it came from

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the south which would have been the

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direction of of the test site

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where the atomic explosion had taken

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place

288
00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:37,600
um it um it seems

289
00:10:42,550 --> 00:10:40,720
that you know given the traces i mean

290
00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:42,560
the the thing after hitting the tower

291
00:10:47,430 --> 00:10:44,399
the thing fell

292
00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:47,440
hit the ground starting a fire in the

293
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:50,480
vegetation if you know new mexico

294
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:53,600
uh we're at 5000 feet altitude

295
00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:56,720
and the vegetation is mostly crazy and

296
00:11:02,389 --> 00:11:00,000
cactus and that kind of thing it burned

297
00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:02,399
the object did not burn the object kept

298
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:03,680
its um

299
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:07,040
its identity and uh actually

300
00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:11,120
plowed a path down

301
00:11:14,949 --> 00:11:14,000
down the prairie down down that field

302
00:11:17,829 --> 00:11:14,959
made a turn

303
00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:17,839
apparently under power and and stopped

304
00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:19,040
against a

305
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:23,360
hill so uh that gives us an idea

306
00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:26,320
we reconstructed the weight only

307
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:27,519
approximately

308
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:29,920
that it certainly could not be moved by

309
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:30,880
by men

310
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:34,480
uh they had to build a crane and we know

311
00:11:38,069 --> 00:11:36,480
everything that the military did because

312
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:38,079
witnesses were there

313
00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:41,120
all the time in successive days

314
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:45,120
they had to actually uh bring

315
00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:48,399
an 18-wheeler a low boy you know

316
00:11:52,949 --> 00:11:51,920
army truck and build a crane to lift the

317
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:52,959
object so

318
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:54,959
the the weight would be in the area of

319
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:56,800
about five turns

320
00:12:01,829 --> 00:11:59,920
you know five or seven tons i recall you

321
00:12:02,470 --> 00:12:01,839
talking about the outside material being

322
00:12:08,069 --> 00:12:02,480
extremely

323
00:12:14,550 --> 00:12:11,750
it it some of the

324
00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:14,560
in in the impact against the tower there

325
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:16,800
was material that was ejected there was

326
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:18,160
one panel

327
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:22,160
from the object that was destroyed

328
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:24,880
and that material was recovered by the

329
00:12:29,509 --> 00:12:26,399
kids later on

330
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:29,519
um there were actually four types

331
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:33,760
of material that the witnesses described

332
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:37,120
that uh you know we we hope eventually

333
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:38,160
to

334
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:41,040
maybe recover from some of the people in

335
00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:43,440
the area if they kept some of it as a

336
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:46,399
as a souvenir but remember it's 80 years

337
00:12:49,190 --> 00:12:47,120
ago

338
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:49,200
and the reason the book is called the

339
00:12:53,990 --> 00:12:50,560
best kept secret

340
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:54,000
is that it's not in the air force files

341
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:57,279
as you may know as part of my my work on

342
00:13:02,150 --> 00:12:59,120
the subject

343
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:02,160
i've built various databases of the air

344
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:03,680
force fires both here

345
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:06,720
and in france and elsewhere uh it

346
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:08,800
doesn't show up anywhere

347
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:11,120
so that that secret was kept very very

348
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:11,839
well

349
00:13:17,990 --> 00:13:15,440
within the atomic fives

350
00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:18,000
not within the air force fives or the

351
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,000
army fights

352
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:22,399
where we would have found it i mean as

353
00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:24,240
you know i worked with dr heineck who

354
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:24,800
was

355
00:13:28,949 --> 00:13:28,000
for 25 years a consultant to the u.s air

356
00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:28,959
force

357
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:32,399
we never heard of that case the other

358
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:34,079
reason we never heard of it is that the

359
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:34,880
witnesses

360
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,160
never came forward which is

361
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:40,880
astonishing until you recall the

362
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:44,000
conditions in 1945 and after the war

363
00:13:47,030 --> 00:13:46,240
we went from a shooting wall to the cold

364
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:47,040
war

365
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:50,000
there was intense secrecy and

366
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:51,279
classification on

367
00:13:56,550 --> 00:13:53,839
everything going on in new mexico you

368
00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:56,560
know from los alamos to alamogordo and

369
00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:00,399
everything else and the

370
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:02,720
the young men as they grew up decided

371
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:04,079
they would never

372
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:07,760
talk about it uh also some of the things

373
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:09,519
i had recovered

374
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:13,199
were could have been very controversial

375
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:16,560
they they are controversial today and

376
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:19,040
there's there is some physical evidence

377
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:20,320
in connection with

378
00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:23,600
that recovery is it all right if i admit

379
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:30,790
it's your show the more the merrier

380
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:34,000
hello sorry for being late that's all

381
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:35,600
right thank you so much for coming i

382
00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:36,240
know that

383
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:39,120
you're under a bit of stress right now

384
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:45,509
okay jack do you mind recapitulating

385
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:46,320
what you said

386
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:48,160
in about a minute just for kevin knows

387
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:49,920
to bring him up so

388
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:54,240
this case is uh unique i'm uh

389
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:57,360
i've gone there five times i'm working

390
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:59,279
with paola harris

391
00:15:02,310 --> 00:15:01,600
who actually initiated the research on

392
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:02,320
this

393
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:05,519
when she uh interviewed the the two

394
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:08,639
main witnesses we actually have four

395
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:11,440
four different witnesses to the case

396
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:12,079
that our

397
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:14,399
first hand where we have first-hand

398
00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:15,600
testimony

399
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:17,680
the case is unique in the analyst

400
00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:19,120
because it has to do

401
00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:21,360
with the crash of an object in new

402
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:22,399
mexico

403
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:25,920
two days after the capitulation of japan

404
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:29,680
in an area that was a military area

405
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:33,199
part of the manhattan project complex

406
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:36,480
around white sands the the two witnesses

407
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:37,680
were there

408
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:40,880
at the time when the object came down

409
00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:42,160
from the sky

410
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:45,040
halo tower was partially damaged and

411
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:48,800
then made a crash landing under power

412
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:52,320
they had the opportunity to to examine

413
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:55,040
the object when it was sitting there

414
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:58,079
in in that on on that property which was

415
00:16:04,790 --> 00:15:58,560
their

416
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:04,800
three people including two adults

417
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:08,560
uh including a state officer

418
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,440
uh actually went inside the object so we

419
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:13,519
have testimony from both outside and

420
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:14,399
inside

421
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:17,279
and the two young men were there for

422
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:18,880
eight days afterwards

423
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:22,639
and observed the entire

424
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:25,839
process of recovery of the object which

425
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:27,040
was taken away

426
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:30,240
on an 18-wheeler back to white sands by

427
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:31,360
the army

428
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:34,079
so we have an extraordinary amount of

429
00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:35,199
information

430
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:38,320
just on that one case now again

431
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:41,360
i'm i have to repeat again i am

432
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:44,320
i'm not a theoretical physicist here i'm

433
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:44,720
i'm

434
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:47,600
mainly an information scientist with a

435
00:16:52,629 --> 00:16:49,440
background in physics

436
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:52,639
and so i've tried to relate

437
00:16:57,990 --> 00:16:55,759
that particular case with a pattern of

438
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:58,000
other cases in the literature

439
00:17:05,029 --> 00:17:01,759
that have been studied by government

440
00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:05,039
agencies both in the u.s and in france

441
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:08,640
and enable us to come up with

442
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:11,120
at least some parameters of what the

443
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:17,029
so kevin the way i would like this to be

444
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:18,720
would be more of a conversation between

445
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,000
both of you and i

446
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:22,240
am just an observer or fly on the wall

447
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:24,400
so what thoughts occur to you

448
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:26,559
or questions occur to you when you hear

449
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:27,760
that

450
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,880
directed to jack right

451
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:32,640
well thank you thank you very much for

452
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:33,919
having me join you

453
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,600
jacques it's good to see you again and

454
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,120
and um

455
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:39,120
and i read about this case briefly so

456
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:40,960
i'm really excited to hear it about it

457
00:17:46,870 --> 00:17:42,640
from you

458
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:46,880
um let's see here i

459
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:48,640
well a question that occurs to me is

460
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:50,160
jacques do you have any ideas as to why

461
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:51,760
they're falling from the sky

462
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:54,160
because the skeptic would say if they're

463
00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:56,160
so advanced then why are they

464
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:57,760
not necessarily crashing but hitting

465
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:59,679
some of these earthly objects when

466
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:01,760
our planes don't necessarily do that at

467
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:04,240
least now there are a lot of crashes

468
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:05,600
that's always where there's a lot of

469
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:07,280
reported crashes that's always worrying

470
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:08,880
me a bit

471
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:12,320
yes and uh and i must admit uh

472
00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:15,679
in in the book i you know i make it

473
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:19,360
clear that i i have not been

474
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:22,080
very involved in the study of crashes

475
00:18:26,710 --> 00:18:23,200
because

476
00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:26,720
i remember discussing roswell with dr

477
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:28,000
heineck and and

478
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:30,080
with uh professor mcdonald and with

479
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:31,200
other people

480
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:33,440
and with people at the at the air force

481
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:34,640
when uh

482
00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:37,440
you know i was i consulted briefly for

483
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:38,720
project blue book at

484
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:42,240
wright patterson um they

485
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:44,559
they had you know material that

486
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:45,840
witnesses had

487
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:48,160
brought to the air force to project blue

488
00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:49,600
book in those days

489
00:18:53,350 --> 00:18:51,520
saying you know this crashed on my

490
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:53,360
property and so on

491
00:19:01,029 --> 00:18:57,919
but we we had we never could get to

492
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:01,039
real evidence from primary witnesses

493
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:04,480
if you remember roswell of course is

494
00:19:10,549 --> 00:19:07,520
you know a very prominent case uh

495
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:10,559
it happened uh the testimony is more and

496
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:11,760
more clear as

497
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:13,760
people are reconstructing the history of

498
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:15,520
it but there was nobody

499
00:19:22,830 --> 00:19:18,559
on site when it happened people

500
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:22,840
you know came up came upon the wreckage

501
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:26,240
later the they reconstructed

502
00:19:30,150 --> 00:19:28,640
a number of investigators including

503
00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:30,160
stanton friedman

504
00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:32,799
others have reconstructed what the air

505
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:35,120
force did

506
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:38,880
but there wasn't a case where there was

507
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:42,160
really evidence that we could

508
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:45,679
we could touch and we could hear from

509
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:48,160
live witnesses who had been there while

510
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:49,120
it happened

511
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:52,080
in this case we do and that's why you

512
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:52,960
know i

513
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:55,120
i devoted time to that i went to the

514
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:56,799
site several times

515
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:59,360
uh i had a chance to interview the

516
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:00,799
people there and to

517
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:03,440
to reconstruct the history of it because

518
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:04,159
it's

519
00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:07,200
and then we can put it in the context of

520
00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:10,480
other crazy cases that were not crashes

521
00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:13,679
but were hard landings that

522
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:17,039
are in the official government files

523
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:20,240
of france and of the us namely the

524
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,679
socorro case

525
00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:23,760
which took place just eight miles north

526
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:26,480
of there and the case in valencia in

527
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:27,440
france

528
00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:31,200
in provence which i've investigated also

529
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:32,720
i've gone there

530
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:35,760
with french government officials and

531
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:39,120
that case is still unidentified uh

532
00:20:43,630 --> 00:20:42,559
in their files and socorro as you may

533
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:43,640
know is still

534
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:47,520
unidentified in the air force files

535
00:20:54,070 --> 00:20:51,760
after long investigations by

536
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:54,080
by a number of agencies including the

537
00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:56,320
air force including the fbi

538
00:21:01,669 --> 00:20:59,440
including uh project blue book and

539
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:01,679
including the local police of course and

540
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:03,679
the state police of new mexico

541
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:06,000
so we have all of that and all of that

542
00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:07,360
is in the book so

543
00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:09,760
again i'm i'm think of me as an

544
00:21:14,470 --> 00:21:11,200
information scientist

545
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:14,480
with a servant to you know the

546
00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:17,280
the physicists and the the biologists

547
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:19,039
who are going to look into this

548
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:22,400
and uh i'm trying to bring you a a

549
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:23,200
pattern

550
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:28,720
between some of the

551
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,880
hot spots of ufo locations that you

552
00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:32,000
discovered

553
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:34,720
the the the pattern i i want to mention

554
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:35,360
is

555
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:41,760
he knows three cases namely the new

556
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:43,280
mexico case

557
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:46,559
socorro and valencia in france

558
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:48,559
we know pretty much everything about the

559
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:51,120
object um

560
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:53,679
at least the size and the weight because

561
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:54,240
there were

562
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,080
hard traces in the ground that could be

563
00:22:02,710 --> 00:21:58,720
measured could were preserved

564
00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:02,720
at the site in minutes after the case

565
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:03,919
happened

566
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:07,039
and in all three cases it's not a saucer

567
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:07,520
it's not

568
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:12,080
egg shaped object

569
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:14,240
the witnesses in new mexico called it an

570
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:15,280
avocado

571
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:18,400
so there was there was you know the

572
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:21,280
typical shape of an avocado so it wasn't

573
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:24,159
a perfect oval

574
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:27,600
in socorro it was somewhat smaller but

575
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:30,480
again we have a very precise description

576
00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:31,200
by

577
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:34,240
uh lonnie zamora who's a patrolman who

578
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:37,440
saw the object arrive and in

579
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:40,799
valencia we have the main witness uh mr

580
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:44,880
maurice mas whom i've interviewed

581
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:48,240
the object was about 13 feet

582
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:50,960
and again it was an egg-shaped object

583
00:22:53,909 --> 00:22:51,280
with

584
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:53,919
some sort of dome on top so those are

585
00:23:04,230 --> 00:22:54,480
three

586
00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:08,230
presumably the pilots of craft

587
00:23:21,029 --> 00:23:17,909
breathing our air breathing

588
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:21,039
breathing our air yes they

589
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:23,280
they were breathing normally they didn't

590
00:23:28,870 --> 00:23:24,159
have any

591
00:23:31,610 --> 00:23:28,880
anything around their heads

592
00:23:32,710 --> 00:23:31,620
um they had um

593
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:32,720
[Music]

594
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:35,679
apparently a suit covering their body

595
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:36,000
that

596
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:39,200
was close tied to the skin

597
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:41,440
and in one case i couldn't tell if it

598
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:42,640
was the skin

599
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:46,720
or if it was actually the suit

600
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:51,919
there were no anatomically very similar

601
00:23:55,590 --> 00:23:52,240
to

602
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:55,600
humans all human they had two eyes and

603
00:24:02,149 --> 00:23:59,840
a mouth and a nose the nose was smaller

604
00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:02,159
but essentially the witnesses could

605
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:04,000
relate to them

606
00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:10,470
close enough to us that they thought of

607
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:10,799
them

608
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:20,470
although in the new mexico case

609
00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:24,000
there was there was more there was a

610
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:26,880
like a communication and i i know your

611
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:29,120
group is interested in consciousness

612
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:32,159
there's a lot between the lines about

613
00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:37,120
the uh all the feelings all the

614
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:40,240
psychological impact that these two kids

615
00:24:44,830 --> 00:24:41,760
remember the witnesses were a

616
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:44,840
nine-year-old and a seven-year-old

617
00:24:50,070 --> 00:24:48,240
but remember this was

618
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:50,080
at the end of world war ii i mean the

619
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:52,320
nine-year-old was driving the truck

620
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:55,360
they had binoculars to read

621
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:58,400
the markings on the brands on the

622
00:25:03,269 --> 00:25:01,360
the cattle for their father they they

623
00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:03,279
were taking care of the herd

624
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:06,799
uh on on this uh property which was 80

625
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:07,279
000

626
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:10,880
acres so these were kids in very special

627
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:12,880
conditions they knew the territory very

628
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:13,840
well

629
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:16,880
they had horses to go over this this

630
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:17,840
terrain

631
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:20,159
they knew how to hide when they were

632
00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:21,120
watching the

633
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:24,080
soldiers recovering this object and

634
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:24,720
loading it

635
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:28,400
on the on the truck so they are able to

636
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:31,039
give us very very good testimony one of

637
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:31,440
them

638
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:34,240
has passed away a few years ago but my

639
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:35,200
co-author

640
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:38,480
paula harris was involved in the case

641
00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:41,120
five years before me and she had

642
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:42,159
interviewed him

643
00:25:45,909 --> 00:25:44,799
she actually is the first one to have

644
00:25:49,990 --> 00:25:45,919
recovered

645
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:50,000
from both of them

646
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:52,000
even you know before i got involved in

647
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:53,120
the case

648
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,360
i got involved of the correlation

649
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:00,159
the historical correlation with the atom

650
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:05,750
and which

651
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:08,880
again we we have to ask

652
00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:12,320
why would and that's implicit in

653
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:14,720
what kevin was saying i mean why would

654
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:15,679
you come from

655
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:18,720
alpha centauri and would why would you

656
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:19,679
hit a tower

657
00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:22,080
you know and crash i mean that doesn't

658
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:23,360
make any sense

659
00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:25,200
well we don't know if they came from

660
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:26,720
from alpha centauri

661
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,000
we don't know where they came from they

662
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:32,320
they didn't necessarily drop from the

663
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:33,200
sky

664
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:36,720
they flew over as far as the witnesses

665
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:40,080
could tell they they flew over

666
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:43,760
uh this landscape apparently coming from

667
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:46,960
the project manhattan you know a test

668
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:48,480
site

669
00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:51,600
they hit the tower

670
00:26:57,669 --> 00:26:54,720
they crash landed under power

671
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,679
and then came to rest in this landscape

672
00:27:02,470 --> 00:26:59,520
setting the bushes on fire

673
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:02,480
so when the witnesses arrive they you

674
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:04,240
know their eyes are tearing up

675
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:07,600
they they don't they they think

676
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:10,000
remember the the expression flying

677
00:27:13,269 --> 00:27:11,039
saucer

678
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:13,279
is not in the english language at this

679
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:15,520
point this is the end of world war

680
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:19,120
ii so the their first reaction is

681
00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:21,520
something crashed we have to help you

682
00:27:25,669 --> 00:27:22,240
know

683
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:25,679
site they knew that

684
00:27:30,070 --> 00:27:28,320
they had to get help for the pilots or

685
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:30,080
whoever had crashed

686
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:32,960
they they didn't know what it was they

687
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:34,000
assume it's some sort

688
00:27:40,149 --> 00:27:37,200
of airplane or some sort of prototype

689
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:40,159
and they are going to go there and help

690
00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:41,840
whoever may be wounded

691
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:44,799
at the site that's a motivation the term

692
00:27:50,549 --> 00:27:46,960
flying saucer doesn't exist

693
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:50,559
roswell is two years away in the future

694
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:53,840
kenneth arnold has not done his report

695
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,159
there isn't even an air force i mean

696
00:27:59,909 --> 00:27:58,320
there is an army air force which is part

697
00:28:03,830 --> 00:27:59,919
of the army

698
00:28:06,789 --> 00:28:03,840
there is a pilot named bravi

699
00:28:10,149 --> 00:28:06,799
whose testimony we have who was coming

700
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:10,159
in for a landing at alamogordo

701
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:13,760
he sees the smoke contacts the tower

702
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:17,120
the tower tells him to look

703
00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:20,320
at the control tower tells him to look

704
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:21,919
at the communication tower because

705
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:23,039
they've lost

706
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:26,320
communication with it he flies

707
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:29,600
over the uh you know

708
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:31,840
what they called in those days with

709
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:32,720
fermi

710
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:36,320
tower uh the and they

711
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:39,200
um they observe the the damage to the

712
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:40,080
tower

713
00:28:46,389 --> 00:28:43,279
and then he sees the the fire

714
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,399
and he sees two little kids next to it

715
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:49,440
he calls indian kids they're not indian

716
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:53,039
uh they are mexican and

717
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:57,120
apparently spanish origin but they

718
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,039
they are not they are not technically

719
00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:01,360
indians but they are on their horses and

720
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:02,240
they are

721
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,919
there at the site and the pilot

722
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:05,679
describes them

723
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:08,320
and we believe the pilot is the one who

724
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:10,080
came back the next day

725
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:14,159
to retrieve some of the data on the site

726
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:16,960
the next day is the only day when the

727
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:18,399
two kids were not back

728
00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:21,039
on site because they were working for

729
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:22,559
their father

730
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:26,080
in town after that they were on site

731
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:29,120
every day during the entire recovery

732
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:32,240
so that's the overall scene

733
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:34,399
that's why i became involved because i

734
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:35,919
mean the story was

735
00:29:41,110 --> 00:29:38,640
complete i mean we had the witnesses we

736
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:41,120
had the testimony with the traces

737
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:44,159
and we had testimony from two adults and

738
00:29:48,389 --> 00:29:45,120
one child

739
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:48,399
who actually went inside

740
00:29:52,149 --> 00:29:50,000
kevin i'm not sure if you can hear me

741
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:52,159
but if you can you look like you were

742
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:53,039
thinking

743
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:54,559
and i'm curious to know what's going

744
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:56,159
through your head you can direct it to

745
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:57,120
jacques

746
00:30:00,389 --> 00:29:59,279
yeah no i i'm sorry i didn't know about

747
00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:00,399
the um

748
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:02,559
the pilot being a witness and i think

749
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:03,840
that's excellent that

750
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:07,600
that um that you were able to get

751
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:10,880
his testimony as well and and that he

752
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:12,080
can confirm that the

753
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:14,240
the two boys were there that's really

754
00:30:23,549 --> 00:30:15,919
fascinating

755
00:30:26,590 --> 00:30:23,559
um and yeah so this is

756
00:30:30,789 --> 00:30:26,600
1945. is that correct it would have been

757
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:30,799
1945 everybody is still in uniform

758
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:33,200
uh the army has not been demobilized

759
00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:35,039
they are about to be

760
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:38,720
um japan has just capitulated two days

761
00:30:46,149 --> 00:30:40,240
before

762
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:48,470
yeah and i'm thinking about all the

763
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:51,200
there were

764
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:54,080
there was a lot of ufo activity around

765
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:55,919
white sands missile base

766
00:31:02,549 --> 00:30:59,360
you know during the during the manhattan

767
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:02,559
project as well if i remember right

768
00:31:06,310 --> 00:31:04,640
there there were there were sightings

769
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:06,320
there i mean what do you know about that

770
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:07,679
i mean i don't know i don't know much

771
00:31:12,789 --> 00:31:09,600
about that so uh that's a good question

772
00:31:17,509 --> 00:31:15,110
if you look at the air force fines of

773
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:17,519
project blue book that went back into

774
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:20,880
into you know history this case is not

775
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:22,320
mentioned anywhere

776
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:24,480
that just doesn't exist it was never

777
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:25,600
reported

778
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:28,640
uh to project blue book um

779
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:31,120
and we that's an interesting question of

780
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:32,559
about why

781
00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:35,039
why it wasn't and why nobody knew about

782
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:35,919
it for

783
00:31:42,389 --> 00:31:39,120
essentially you know almost 80 years

784
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:42,399
the they were of course around the

785
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:43,600
manhattan project

786
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:46,080
there were a number of radars including

787
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:47,600
long-range radars

788
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:50,399
and uh wherever you have radar you'll

789
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:51,440
have

790
00:31:55,669 --> 00:31:54,320
you know things that are reported by the

791
00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:55,679
radar people

792
00:32:02,470 --> 00:31:58,880
that as unusual things and usually you

793
00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:02,480
you send you send an aircraft to verify

794
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:03,760
what it is so

795
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:07,440
uh yes there were reports

796
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:09,120
certainly there were many reports around

797
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:11,600
new mexico around that time

798
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:15,440
but to me uh there was nothing like this

799
00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:19,200
you know it's only after 1947

800
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:22,320
you know kenneth arnold talks about what

801
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:23,360
he saw

802
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:28,080
a very very credible pilot uh that

803
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:31,279
creates the term flying saucer the press

804
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:32,240
the american

805
00:32:38,310 --> 00:32:35,279
newspapers get all excited about it

806
00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:38,320
the air force starts its investigation

807
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:42,000
uh and and then of course there is

808
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:44,640
the roswell crash so around that time

809
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:46,320
people start reporting everything

810
00:32:51,750 --> 00:32:48,159
they've seen

811
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:51,760
but for uh in the air force fives

812
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:55,120
that i have a complete record of the

813
00:33:03,350 --> 00:32:58,799
original files there are only four

814
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:03,360
cases reported in 1945

815
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:06,240
around that time including one

816
00:33:12,310 --> 00:33:08,559
remarkably from

817
00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:12,320
a citizen in uh el paso who actually saw

818
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:13,840
the atom bomb

819
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:17,519
he saw the the test of the the first a

820
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:18,240
bomb

821
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:21,600
saw the mushroom cloud and reported it

822
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:23,440
as something in the sky that

823
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:25,440
he couldn't understand that they had

824
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:26,880
never seen before

825
00:33:31,750 --> 00:33:29,519
which is remarkable so yes there was a

826
00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:31,760
lot of scrutiny of the sky

827
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:34,880
uh just because they had to be aware of

828
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:38,000
spying or anything you know

829
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:41,279
going over uh the the test side

830
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:44,480
um just because there could be accidents

831
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:45,039
if

832
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:49,120
military

833
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:52,960
test side but there was nothing like

834
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,760
like this so again we don't know where

835
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:57,200
it came from

836
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:00,399
uh mr padilla told me that he

837
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:04,240
thought and and his his argument is

838
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:07,440
i mean he didn't see it coming um he saw

839
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:08,399
the crash

840
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:10,320
but he didn't see it coming when it hit

841
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:11,440
the tower

842
00:34:17,589 --> 00:34:14,480
but again you're dealing with very

843
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:17,599
clever kids who were

844
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:20,639
entrusted with you know guarding the

845
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:21,119
cattle

846
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:24,399
and the property fixing the fences and

847
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:25,200
all the

848
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:29,200
shores on the farm and so

849
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:31,919
this nine-year-old after a few days

850
00:34:36,629 --> 00:34:34,560
decided to climb the tower

851
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:36,639
you know the marconi tower that had been

852
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:39,440
hit he climbed about halfway up

853
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:42,480
the this about 70 foot high

854
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:45,520
tower to look at

855
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:47,359
where the impact had been i mean there

856
00:34:51,030 --> 00:34:49,440
was one leg of that tower

857
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:51,040
and you could i've been there you can

858
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:52,960
still see where the legs were

859
00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:54,800
well it must have been a very large

860
00:34:59,910 --> 00:34:57,280
tower and it was there because

861
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:59,920
in the north the the landscape goes up

862
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:01,200
to a cliff

863
00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:04,000
and uh airplanes had been hitting that

864
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:05,200
cliff so

865
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:09,280
it was there to preserve to warm pilots

866
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,320
remember you're at 5000 feet at

867
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:14,160
you know there and then the cliff goes

868
00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:16,000
up from there and so that

869
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:18,880
tower was there to protect the northern

870
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:21,440
area of the manhattan project

871
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:25,520
and the uh so this kid goes up the

872
00:35:30,150 --> 00:35:29,119
the tower and he watches where the leg

873
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:30,160
is bent

874
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:32,320
and that tells him what direction the

875
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:33,680
object came from

876
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:36,160
again those were clever kids i mean they

877
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:37,040
you know

878
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:38,880
you learned quickly in those days you

879
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:40,320
know now i

880
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:44,480
i grew up in france in occupied france

881
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:48,240
okay uh i was born 1939 so

882
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:51,280
you know i'm in age i'm close to

883
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:54,480
those those witnesses uh i

884
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:56,240
you know i was old enough at the end of

885
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:57,520
the war

886
00:36:01,030 --> 00:36:00,400
to understand to be able to place myself

887
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:01,040
in

888
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:06,960
you know the liberation of france what

889
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:09,359
people were doing around that day and

890
00:36:14,069 --> 00:36:12,320
those days and what was secret the

891
00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:14,079
things you couldn't talk about the

892
00:36:18,150 --> 00:36:14,960
things that

893
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:18,160
even as a kid i mean this was it was

894
00:36:21,430 --> 00:36:18,720
clear

895
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:21,440
you know about how you had to behave and

896
00:36:23,670 --> 00:36:22,000
uh

897
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:23,680
remember the nine-year-old was driving

898
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:25,440
the family truck i mean there was

899
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,320
everybody else was in uniform or was too

900
00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:30,000
old to drive the truck

901
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:31,440
jack you mentioned that there is an

902
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:33,359
aspect of consciousness associated with

903
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:34,079
this event

904
00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:36,720
do you mind explaining what you mean it

905
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:39,280
comes up again and again and again

906
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:43,200
and remember i worked initially from the

907
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:44,480
transcripts

908
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:47,680
of the interviews that paola harris had

909
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:48,079
done

910
00:36:53,670 --> 00:36:51,280
very very well she's a very good

911
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:53,680
you know investigator and trained

912
00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:55,040
journalist

913
00:36:59,349 --> 00:36:57,119
she recorded all those conversations

914
00:37:02,790 --> 00:36:59,359
with both mr padilla

915
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:02,800
and mr baka remy bakker who

916
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:05,040
by then was an entrepreneur in

917
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:07,119
washington state

918
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:11,280
um in in the interviews

919
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:13,680
i i was trying to reconstruct going word

920
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:15,680
by word reconstructing

921
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:18,880
the scene and they say well they were

922
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:19,920
there for

923
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:23,040
maybe 15 20 minutes and then in

924
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:25,359
when you put the testimony together they

925
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:28,160
were there for like an hour and a half

926
00:37:31,510 --> 00:37:30,800
well i don't know if you have kids but

927
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:31,520
my kids

928
00:37:35,589 --> 00:37:33,599
when they were seven or nine you

929
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:35,599
couldn't make them stand still for an

930
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:36,720
hour and a half

931
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,839
to let alone 20 minutes uh what were

932
00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:40,800
they doing

933
00:37:44,470 --> 00:37:43,119
so i've had the privilege of

934
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:44,480
reinterviewing

935
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:47,599
mr padilla about this and he said well

936
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:49,839
they were

937
00:37:56,150 --> 00:37:53,119
wanted to go and help they are there

938
00:37:59,190 --> 00:37:56,160
the there is an opening in the object

939
00:38:01,109 --> 00:37:59,200
through there they see three beings who

940
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:01,119
are about their size

941
00:38:07,510 --> 00:38:04,160
they think of them as little men or

942
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:07,520
kids although

943
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:10,240
they also look a little bit like a large

944
00:38:14,950 --> 00:38:12,320
insect

945
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:14,960
they they are not completely human they

946
00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:17,760
have a large head

947
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:20,800
shoulders long arms

948
00:38:27,349 --> 00:38:24,480
and they they walk not by walking but by

949
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:27,359
just moving around shuffling willing

950
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:29,440
themselves to move around

951
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:31,119
you happen to have a picture of it in

952
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:32,720
your book uh

953
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:35,839
no no well i have pictures

954
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:39,920
of um i have pictures of

955
00:38:44,829 --> 00:38:42,720
you know what you could compare it to

956
00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:44,839
but

957
00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:53,430
they were they felt mr paliya told me we

958
00:38:58,790 --> 00:38:55,440
felt sorry for them

959
00:38:59,510 --> 00:38:58,800
he wanted to go and help and he said you

960
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:59,520
know

961
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:01,280
if i had done that i probably wouldn't

962
00:39:06,150 --> 00:39:03,359
be here talking to you

963
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:06,160
uh you know going into that craft they

964
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:06,880
were always

965
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:10,000
inside sort of moving back and forth

966
00:39:15,349 --> 00:39:14,560
crying and crying yes and he compared it

967
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:15,359
to

968
00:39:21,190 --> 00:39:18,960
the cry of a rabbit when you kill it

969
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:21,200
again these kids are growing up on the

970
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:22,720
on the ranch okay

971
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:25,440
they are very familiar with animals with

972
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:26,960
you know

973
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:29,839
preparing food and everything else they

974
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:31,200
they are

975
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:39,839
go and help

976
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:42,560
the seven-year-old says no way i'm not

977
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:43,440
going there

978
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:46,960
he's crying he's really terrified

979
00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:49,200
he doesn't want to get involved they are

980
00:39:51,829 --> 00:39:51,440
200 feet away from the object at that

981
00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:51,839
point

982
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:55,040
okay this is their land i mean they know

983
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:57,200
the territory they but they see this

984
00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:59,359
thing there is no more smoke no more

985
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:00,240
fire

986
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:04,720
way the object is intact

987
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:07,599
which is kind of remarkable after what

988
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:08,720
it went through

989
00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:11,280
the only thing missing is that panel a

990
00:40:14,309 --> 00:40:11,760
lot of

991
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:14,319
material that they talk about light

992
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:15,280
material

993
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:20,319
that they will compare to

994
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:23,359
uh they will compare to

995
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:27,359
a fiber optic they will compare it to

996
00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:29,280
things you put on the christmas tree

997
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:30,800
silver you know

998
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:34,880
silver material very light

999
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:38,400
light aluminum

1000
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:41,520
and just shiny stuff in fact

1001
00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:44,480
some of the fiber they they recovered

1002
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:45,200
they filled

1003
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:48,160
a big sack with it and they gave it to

1004
00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:49,760
their neighbors to put on their

1005
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:51,359
christmas trees

1006
00:40:57,750 --> 00:40:54,960
i mean again this was

1007
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:57,760
what a kid would do i mean they they

1008
00:41:02,630 --> 00:40:59,760
recovered it they thought it was

1009
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:02,640
wonderful it was mysterious they didn't

1010
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:04,560
have many toys in those days you know

1011
00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:06,800
where does consciousness enter into this

1012
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,480
so the consciousness is that they

1013
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:12,480
they feel that the beings are

1014
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:14,400
communicating with them

1015
00:41:17,750 --> 00:41:16,400
so the beings were aware that sorry to

1016
00:41:19,349 --> 00:41:17,760
interrupt the beings were aware that

1017
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:19,359
they were there 200 feet away or did

1018
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:20,640
they come closer

1019
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:24,400
they that we asked that question

1020
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:28,720
the the the beings were not looking

1021
00:41:35,109 --> 00:41:31,440
directly at them

1022
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:35,119
but they they felt that the beings were

1023
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:38,160
uh aware that they were there

1024
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:40,079
they remember they had binoculars so

1025
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:41,200
they passed

1026
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:43,920
the binoculars to each other staring at

1027
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:44,640
these

1028
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:50,880
feeling sorry for them feeling pain

1029
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:52,560
feeling that they should help

1030
00:41:58,230 --> 00:41:55,680
and they were helpless to really help

1031
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:58,240
they knew the time was passing no night

1032
00:42:02,390 --> 00:41:59,359
was coming

1033
00:42:03,589 --> 00:42:02,400
their father would be angry there would

1034
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:03,599
be concern

1035
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:05,920
they had to get home which was half an

1036
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:07,520
hour away on

1037
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:10,960
on the horse and then

1038
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:14,000
images came into their heads and they

1039
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:14,560
were

1040
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:18,400
sort of mesmerized and frozen

1041
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:21,520
to the spot they saw big buildings

1042
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:23,200
falling apart of course they had never

1043
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:23,920
seen

1044
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:26,720
a big building there on a farm in new

1045
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:28,960
mexico in 1945

1046
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:31,680
they they see things falling from the

1047
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:32,480
sky

1048
00:42:38,470 --> 00:42:35,599
and then in later years

1049
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:38,480
they have recurring dreams about things

1050
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:40,400
falling from the sky

1051
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:42,839
people dying people falling from

1052
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:44,960
buildings and

1053
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:48,240
that lasted in the case of mr padilla

1054
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:50,160
this lasted about two or three years he

1055
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:53,200
had these recurring dreams afterwards

1056
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:55,839
but they are essentially mesmerized and

1057
00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:57,680
frozen to the spot

1058
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:01,359
they jose

1059
00:43:08,069 --> 00:43:04,880
mr padilla wants to go and help

1060
00:43:11,109 --> 00:43:08,079
and remy says no way i'm not going there

1061
00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:11,119
and the older one defers to

1062
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:14,160
the younger one and they they don't go

1063
00:43:20,550 --> 00:43:19,750
they go they go home at night on

1064
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:20,560
horseback

1065
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:24,560
crying all the way kevin do you have any

1066
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:27,680
questions for jacques about this

1067
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:31,040
or insights where to start um

1068
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:34,160
wow um earlier i was kind of laughing

1069
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:34,640
because

1070
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:38,400
the story about the tower

1071
00:43:41,589 --> 00:43:40,160
and how it acted it was supposed to act

1072
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:41,599
as kind of a warning to

1073
00:43:45,750 --> 00:43:44,480
pilots about the cliff um the fact that

1074
00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:45,760
the

1075
00:43:54,150 --> 00:43:49,200
was kind of ridiculous

1076
00:43:56,950 --> 00:43:54,160
um it misses the cliff but hits the wall

1077
00:43:58,630 --> 00:43:56,960
kind of ironic right um well there is no

1078
00:44:02,470 --> 00:43:58,640
question that something hit the tower

1079
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:02,480
yeah yeah some time later the

1080
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:05,040
army just took down the tower it's not

1081
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:05,760
there

1082
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:08,960
right so that's why i reacted

1083
00:44:19,910 --> 00:44:18,870
now i i definitely agree with what you

1084
00:44:22,950 --> 00:44:19,920
say about the

1085
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:22,960
young boys being

1086
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:24,960
responsible you know they're responsible

1087
00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:26,160
enough to go and

1088
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:29,440
and collect information on cattle and

1089
00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:32,800
and drive a truck and that and i i'm

1090
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:35,280
not i didn't grow up in the 1940s but i

1091
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:37,040
grew up in the 1970s and

1092
00:44:41,589 --> 00:44:40,880
and and we had i grew up in wisconsin

1093
00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:41,599
and we

1094
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:44,720
um we had a great deal more freedom than

1095
00:44:47,670 --> 00:44:45,119
than

1096
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:47,680
kids typically do today and i think that

1097
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:50,000
you know we could

1098
00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:53,119
i was i was able to ride my bike

1099
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:54,960
10 miles out into the country without

1100
00:44:59,910 --> 00:44:58,240
any problems and to go bird watching or

1101
00:45:01,829 --> 00:44:59,920
butterfly collecting or whatever i was

1102
00:45:04,069 --> 00:45:01,839
up to at the time so

1103
00:45:05,829 --> 00:45:04,079
so that was not a real issue back then

1104
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:05,839
and and we were able to do that

1105
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:08,880
and um so that's not so surprising to me

1106
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:09,839
now

1107
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:16,550
so the the the few things come to mind

1108
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:17,200
and

1109
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:21,440
description of the

1110
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:24,240
beings is of course very similar to what

1111
00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:24,800
you

1112
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:28,960
we hear over and over again and um

1113
00:45:32,069 --> 00:45:31,440
and there's been some question as to are

1114
00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:32,079
these things

1115
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:34,400
really biological are they you know are

1116
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:35,200
they machines

1117
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,319
are they you know and what and so

1118
00:45:41,829 --> 00:45:40,640
the fact that you know the fact that

1119
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:41,839
they were

1120
00:45:45,670 --> 00:45:44,880
um distressed i find interesting it

1121
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:45,680
makes me

1122
00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:47,599
think that they're you know really are

1123
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:49,839
biological

1124
00:45:54,390 --> 00:45:52,560
and um although you could have a

1125
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:54,400
distressed machine if it's sufficiently

1126
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:56,880
intelligent i suppose so

1127
00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:58,480
but then it'd be like that simpsons joke

1128
00:46:00,950 --> 00:46:00,160
with the robot coming out of the burning

1129
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:00,960
building why

1130
00:46:04,470 --> 00:46:03,119
why did you design me to feel pain

1131
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:04,480
that's right

1132
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:08,960
right

1133
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:13,440
and um we're rutger hauer's character

1134
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:15,200
and blade runner who doesn't want to die

1135
00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:16,480
right he

1136
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:18,319
so he goes to his maker and wants more

1137
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:20,800
life and he's clearly distressed and

1138
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:21,839
disturbed so

1139
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:24,880
um yeah that could happen but

1140
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:27,760
so the the another thing really strikes

1141
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:28,000
me

1142
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:31,119
strange is the idea that they don't walk

1143
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:32,800
that they kind of shuffle or will

1144
00:46:36,790 --> 00:46:34,480
themselves to move to

1145
00:46:39,349 --> 00:46:36,800
point to point and i that i've heard you

1146
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:39,359
know from multiple accounts as well

1147
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:42,000
um they either are hovering just above

1148
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:42,560
the ground

1149
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:45,040
and just kind of willing themselves from

1150
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:46,800
place to place and

1151
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:48,880
and i can't help but think what what's

1152
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:49,920
going on there

1153
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:52,240
what is what is happening with that and

1154
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:56,309
you know if they're truly biologic if

1155
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:58,240
they're just biological then how are you

1156
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:59,920
doing that how can you possibly do

1157
00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:00,880
something like that

1158
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:04,880
um and so it makes me wonder maybe

1159
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:06,800
there's a

1160
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:11,760
technology involved

1161
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:14,400
and maybe there's you know you can i

1162
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:16,160
guess you could probably

1163
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:18,319
at this point humans aren't totally

1164
00:47:22,829 --> 00:47:19,760
biological we have

1165
00:47:25,190 --> 00:47:22,839
appendages which are made right so i've

1166
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:25,200
glasses um these are probably the oldest

1167
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,160
ones but

1168
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:28,800
you know we'll have cyborgs soon where

1169
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:30,000
we have actually actually

1170
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:32,800
extra equipment attached um you have

1171
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:34,240
headphones on

1172
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:37,599
so this is basically it so

1173
00:47:41,349 --> 00:47:38,800
so there could be something

1174
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:41,359
technological to that which would then

1175
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:43,839
make that you know possibly more

1176
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,960
believable

1177
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:46,319
although i still wouldn't know how it

1178
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:48,160
would work

1179
00:47:55,190 --> 00:47:52,480
um the

1180
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:55,200
the consciousness aspect is very strange

1181
00:48:03,750 --> 00:47:56,000
and

1182
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:03,760
similar to other accounts

1183
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:07,119
especially i had um

1184
00:48:10,309 --> 00:48:10,000
seen salma sayak i believe her name is

1185
00:48:14,069 --> 00:48:10,319
who

1186
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:14,079
zimbabwe

1187
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:17,520
yes and um and she was

1188
00:48:21,670 --> 00:48:19,920
very close to one of these small beings

1189
00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:21,680
again and she talked about

1190
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:24,960
um an eyelock where where you your eyes

1191
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:28,079
lock onto theirs and you are mesmerized

1192
00:48:31,109 --> 00:48:30,000
and and really can't move can't turn

1193
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:31,119
away you

1194
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:33,760
paralyzed almost and um being mesmerized

1195
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:34,880
is probably the

1196
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:42,549
and very often people describe you get

1197
00:48:46,069 --> 00:48:44,480
thoughts and forms of images you get

1198
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:46,079
images flashing in your mind

1199
00:48:49,990 --> 00:48:48,960
and very often these are images very

1200
00:48:51,990 --> 00:48:50,000
similar to

1201
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:52,000
you know disaster fires buildings

1202
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:53,920
crashing exactly what you're describing

1203
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:54,400
so

1204
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:56,480
do you have any ideas to why that may be

1205
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:57,920
kevin and jock first of all are they

1206
00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:59,520
even premonitions are they examples of

1207
00:49:03,190 --> 00:49:01,200
what may occur in the future

1208
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:03,200
or are they just images like that are

1209
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:05,040
disconnected and and why

1210
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:07,599
and why it's it's to be honest it sounds

1211
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:08,160
very

1212
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:13,839
know the revelations from john

1213
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:16,640
or something it doesn't say it doesn't

1214
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:18,400
sound that different actually you know

1215
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:20,720
it makes me more sometimes wonder maybe

1216
00:49:24,390 --> 00:49:23,040
maybe this is what john's encounter was

1217
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,400
like and

1218
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:26,559
and he had visions like this and wrote

1219
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:27,839
them down

1220
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:31,440
um could that be what happened there

1221
00:49:38,230 --> 00:49:34,880
mr padilla said uh told me they were

1222
00:49:39,109 --> 00:49:38,240
putting images into my mind yeah so he

1223
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:39,119
felt there was

1224
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:41,280
there was communication there even

1225
00:49:45,750 --> 00:49:42,640
though he didn't

1226
00:49:46,230 --> 00:49:45,760
walk up to it they didn't especially

1227
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:46,240
look

1228
00:49:49,829 --> 00:49:48,800
directly at them that there was this

1229
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:49,839
intense

1230
00:49:56,829 --> 00:49:53,359
communication

1231
00:49:58,390 --> 00:49:56,839
the the same thing happens in in

1232
00:50:01,430 --> 00:49:58,400
valencia uh

1233
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:01,440
with the the the witness there uh

1234
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:04,400
in valencia the the witness is a former

1235
00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:06,640
leader of the french resistance

1236
00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:10,160
so he is um and

1237
00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:14,000
you know just so interesting that

1238
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:15,839
i i know you have an audience here of

1239
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:17,920
scientists and scientists say well

1240
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:19,920
you know the the witnesses must have

1241
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:22,079
told what they saw because

1242
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:23,760
they they go to the police and they

1243
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:25,119
write a report

1244
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:27,440
they give a report that's not true in

1245
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:28,960
with ufo cases

1246
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:31,520
it's not true with the traumatic cases

1247
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:33,119
number one there are things that the

1248
00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:34,960
witnesses don't remember

1249
00:50:42,069 --> 00:50:38,319
or cannot articulate you have

1250
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:42,079
which is why people rightly or wrongly

1251
00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:44,800
try to use hypnosis which is not a good

1252
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:45,680
idea

1253
00:50:49,990 --> 00:50:48,480
but some of the information is buried in

1254
00:50:54,309 --> 00:50:50,000
the unconscious

1255
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:54,319
uh no carl jung speaks about that uh

1256
00:50:58,150 --> 00:50:56,480
and some of the information that you

1257
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:58,160
know will you go to the

1258
00:51:04,470 --> 00:51:01,520
local police uh and tell them

1259
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:04,480
well you know i i saw this and then they

1260
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:07,119
put images in my mind you know i mean

1261
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:11,599
the you know the local guy will say okay

1262
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:14,240
i've got 10 robberies to investigate

1263
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:15,680
don't bother me with

1264
00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:17,280
the you know the things you see in your

1265
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,160
mind so

1266
00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:22,400
and also these witnesses had good

1267
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:23,680
reasons not to

1268
00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:26,800
talk about what they had seen and and to

1269
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:28,720
to some extent they would have repressed

1270
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:30,240
it except that they

1271
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:33,280
kept talking about it among themselves

1272
00:51:38,069 --> 00:51:36,559
okay and then after that as they grew up

1273
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:38,079
they went to different

1274
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:41,200
uh mr padilla went to the korean war

1275
00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:44,480
uh has a couple of bullets in his body

1276
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:45,440
by the way

1277
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:49,040
uh from both his life as a you know with

1278
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:50,240
the

1279
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:53,280
california highway patrol

1280
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:56,640
and with uh korea

1281
00:52:03,829 --> 00:52:00,160
uh so these these are serious people and

1282
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:03,839
um ray me baca went on a career as a

1283
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:04,640
businessman

1284
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:08,160
in in the state of washington they

1285
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:11,440
practically forgot the case they

1286
00:52:14,710 --> 00:52:13,920
you know they let it drift away from

1287
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:14,720
them

1288
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:18,400
and they were reconnected by

1289
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:21,359
one of the one of their kids doing an

1290
00:52:25,109 --> 00:52:22,079
internet

1291
00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:25,119
search uh about the

1292
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:27,440
history of their family and they found

1293
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:28,720
each other through

1294
00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:32,000
through an internet search and then

1295
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:34,720
they reconstructed they said you

1296
00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:36,880
remember when we saw this and

1297
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:38,960
you know whatever happened to that case

1298
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:40,000
and so on

1299
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:43,680
and then they that's when the case was

1300
00:52:47,190 --> 00:52:44,880
mentioned in a

1301
00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:47,200
local paper in new mexico and that's

1302
00:52:51,670 --> 00:52:48,880
where paola harris found it

1303
00:52:52,950 --> 00:52:51,680
and started investigating from italy

1304
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:52,960
where she was living

1305
00:52:58,790 --> 00:52:56,480
and then went to visit um

1306
00:52:59,589 --> 00:52:58,800
remy baka and got the whole got the

1307
00:53:02,710 --> 00:52:59,599
whole story

1308
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:02,720
so that's that's how it happened so i'm

1309
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:03,359
a little bit

1310
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:07,680
intimidated speaking to an audience of

1311
00:53:14,549 --> 00:53:11,839
of scientists because you know

1312
00:53:16,150 --> 00:53:14,559
the the people here have a right to say

1313
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:16,160
well

1314
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:18,400
so we've got the thing it landed you've

1315
00:53:21,750 --> 00:53:19,680
got the witnesses

1316
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:21,760
surely you have some answers where did

1317
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:24,000
it come from why did it hit the tower

1318
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,119
what was it made of and so on well

1319
00:53:31,270 --> 00:53:30,000
the problem is that yes we have some

1320
00:53:34,470 --> 00:53:31,280
answers

1321
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:34,480
but there is only so far that i can go

1322
00:53:38,549 --> 00:53:36,319
i i can tell you that these people are

1323
00:53:40,390 --> 00:53:38,559
telling the truth i can tell you that we

1324
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:40,400
have corroborating data

1325
00:53:47,190 --> 00:53:43,440
from you know the other

1326
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:47,200
two other witnesses um i can tell you

1327
00:53:50,950 --> 00:53:47,920
that

1328
00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:50,960
we've actually recovered some some

1329
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:54,240
some things uh that we certainly have

1330
00:53:58,950 --> 00:53:56,640
good descriptions of the physics

1331
00:54:00,390 --> 00:53:58,960
of some of the objects that were

1332
00:54:02,710 --> 00:54:00,400
recovered

1333
00:54:05,589 --> 00:54:02,720
that that are very interesting in terms

1334
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:05,599
of the the property of the materials

1335
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:09,119
including memory metals i mean people

1336
00:54:14,470 --> 00:54:11,200
talk about memory metals

1337
00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:14,480
in roswell you know two years later and

1338
00:54:18,549 --> 00:54:17,119
yes i mean people at battelle and other

1339
00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:18,559
places

1340
00:54:22,309 --> 00:54:21,440
working for industry had thought of an

1341
00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:22,319
aerospace

1342
00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:25,040
of course we're thinking of memory

1343
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:27,359
metals that could be used in

1344
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:30,880
actuators in airplanes and rockets and

1345
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:33,920
all those things and yes they were aware

1346
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:36,640
of the discoveries that had been made in

1347
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:37,520
physics

1348
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:39,680
about metal that can come back to its

1349
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:40,880
own

1350
00:54:45,510 --> 00:54:43,599
shape to its original shape under

1351
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:45,520
certain conditions of temperature

1352
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:46,480
whatever

1353
00:54:51,589 --> 00:54:50,160
but in 1945 you know an operational

1354
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:51,599
memory metal

1355
00:54:58,710 --> 00:54:55,520
that's you know you can argue about 1947

1356
00:55:00,870 --> 00:54:58,720
1945 it's a lot harder you know but

1357
00:55:02,150 --> 00:55:00,880
of course we don't know what was in the

1358
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:02,160
research labs

1359
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:05,119
but essentially what what we have opens

1360
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:05,359
up

1361
00:55:13,109 --> 00:55:08,559
other questions remember at the end

1362
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:13,119
of on the last day the army

1363
00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:16,400
again an army officer

1364
00:55:24,390 --> 00:55:19,520
goes to see the father of

1365
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:24,400
mr padilla and he says in spanish

1366
00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:28,240
we're going to have to cut your fence

1367
00:55:32,069 --> 00:55:30,480
and we have your permission again the

1368
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:32,079
army can't just go there

1369
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:34,640
it's leased from the bureau of land

1370
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:35,280
management

1371
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:38,559
you know the official federal agency

1372
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:41,839
so uh they have to ask permission to the

1373
00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:42,720
owner

1374
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:45,760
uh or to to the the man who manages the

1375
00:55:49,109 --> 00:55:47,119
property he says

1376
00:55:50,549 --> 00:55:49,119
why do you want to cut the fence i mean

1377
00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:50,559
there is a gate there

1378
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:53,599
for the cattle and this officer

1379
00:55:57,990 --> 00:55:57,040
says yeah but we need to bring a big

1380
00:56:03,030 --> 00:55:58,000
truck

1381
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:03,040
to recover this experimental balloon

1382
00:56:06,470 --> 00:56:05,359
okay that fell on your property well

1383
00:56:08,470 --> 00:56:06,480
everybody knows

1384
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:08,480
i mean there were balloons that i mean

1385
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:09,839
they were launching balloons all the

1386
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:11,280
time at white sands

1387
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:14,720
the balloons fell on his 80 000 acres

1388
00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:17,440
so he was he had a bunch of balloons in

1389
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:18,640
the back room

1390
00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:21,440
that he gave this officer said you want

1391
00:56:24,549 --> 00:56:22,559
your balloons or

1392
00:56:26,710 --> 00:56:24,559
here they are you know they they were

1393
00:56:29,990 --> 00:56:26,720
recovering weather balloons all the time

1394
00:56:32,069 --> 00:56:30,000
on this land okay so it was a big joke

1395
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:32,079
and everybody knew it wasn't a balloon

1396
00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:33,680
okay so

1397
00:56:37,990 --> 00:56:36,160
we need to bring this big truck to

1398
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:38,000
recover this quote balloon

1399
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:40,400
and we have to cut your fence but we

1400
00:56:43,910 --> 00:56:42,000
will give you a big gate

1401
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:43,920
that you can use you know and we'll

1402
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:45,440
build a road

1403
00:56:50,069 --> 00:56:47,680
so the first thing the army has to do is

1404
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:50,079
to go there and he agreed

1405
00:56:54,470 --> 00:56:52,720
uh go there cut the fence put in their

1406
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:54,480
own gate

1407
00:56:58,870 --> 00:56:57,040
and and bring a couple of graders to

1408
00:57:01,750 --> 00:56:58,880
build a road to

1409
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:01,760
which is i i've walked on that road uh

1410
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:04,400
you know it's it's about a mile or so

1411
00:57:07,990 --> 00:57:06,400
to the place where the object was

1412
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:08,000
resting

1413
00:57:11,510 --> 00:57:10,079
then they bring this 18-wheeler with a

1414
00:57:14,069 --> 00:57:11,520
low boy

1415
00:57:14,870 --> 00:57:14,079
where they can load this object on its

1416
00:57:17,990 --> 00:57:14,880
side

1417
00:57:20,549 --> 00:57:18,000
so they have to build a crane

1418
00:57:21,270 --> 00:57:20,559
which was probably about 15 to 20 feet

1419
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:21,280
high

1420
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:24,559
it's not a big crane but it has to be

1421
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:28,079
big enough to lift this thing and put it

1422
00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:31,440
sideways um remember it's sort of egg

1423
00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:34,480
shaped but if we put it

1424
00:57:38,390 --> 00:57:37,280
right up it's not going to go under the

1425
00:57:41,510 --> 00:57:38,400
overpass

1426
00:57:41,829 --> 00:57:41,520
on the way back to white sands okay so

1427
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:41,839
this

1428
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:45,440
big object

1429
00:57:49,270 --> 00:57:47,920
it's like the size of a large you know a

1430
00:57:53,190 --> 00:57:49,280
large truck

1431
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:53,200
and uh about 25 feet long about 15 feet

1432
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:54,000
high

1433
00:57:58,230 --> 00:57:57,599
the kids measure it okay again those are

1434
00:58:00,789 --> 00:57:58,240
smart

1435
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:00,799
kids they they measure it not with a

1436
00:58:06,309 --> 00:58:03,119
tape but they measure it by pacing it

1437
00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:06,319
and it's 20 to 25 feet long

1438
00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:10,000
15 feet high i asked mr padilla how

1439
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:12,960
high was it inside and he said about 13

1440
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:13,680
feet

1441
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:16,240
and i say huh you know i mean you were

1442
00:58:20,470 --> 00:58:18,000
three feet tall i mean you were

1443
00:58:22,390 --> 00:58:20,480
nine year old how do you know it was 13

1444
00:58:25,349 --> 00:58:22,400
he says because that's

1445
00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:25,359
the size of the beams when you build a

1446
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:27,119
house

1447
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:29,119
okay this is a nine-year-old this is a

1448
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,240
very sharp

1449
00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:32,160
nine-year-old he knows the facts of life

1450
00:58:35,109 --> 00:58:33,359
okay uh

1451
00:58:37,030 --> 00:58:35,119
again he had a reference object in his

1452
00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:37,040
mind and he had a reference

1453
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:39,839
jacques a question from the audience

1454
00:58:44,950 --> 00:58:41,280
from two people one is f

1455
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,960
is me and amjad hussein by the way amjad

1456
00:58:49,270 --> 00:58:46,319
hussein is

1457
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:49,280
the ceo of algo.com which i recommend

1458
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:50,640
you check out because they sponsor the

1459
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:52,400
podcast they both have the same

1460
00:58:55,430 --> 00:58:54,240
question which is about aliens and

1461
00:58:57,750 --> 00:58:55,440
consciousness

1462
00:58:59,589 --> 00:58:57,760
is there the possibility of connecting

1463
00:59:01,750 --> 00:58:59,599
to aliens through psychedelics

1464
00:59:03,349 --> 00:59:01,760
have you experimented with this or know

1465
00:59:05,270 --> 00:59:03,359
about people who have done this

1466
00:59:06,789 --> 00:59:05,280
and why do you think this may be

1467
00:59:09,430 --> 00:59:06,799
plausible

1468
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:09,440
this is to both of you even kevin uh

1469
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:11,760
terence mckenna is a reference on this

1470
00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:12,319
has

1471
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:14,640
done a lot of research on as you know in

1472
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:17,280
psychedelics

1473
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:19,920
all over the world i've spoken to his

1474
00:59:23,910 --> 00:59:21,359
brother as well

1475
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:23,920
and there are quite a few people who go

1476
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:25,040
off to

1477
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:29,200
mexico or to brazil to experiment with

1478
00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:33,440
different things and they describe

1479
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,599
beings that they call aliens that they

1480
00:59:39,829 --> 00:59:37,200
think of as aliens

1481
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:39,839
when they are under the effect of uh of

1482
00:59:43,990 --> 00:59:41,200
the psychedelic

1483
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:44,000
uh i've never taken any drugs so i'm not

1484
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:45,760
you know not even tobacco

1485
00:59:49,270 --> 00:59:48,640
i mean i tried once and i i didn't like

1486
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,280
it so

1487
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:51,680
so i smoke on a regular basis well yeah

1488
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:52,640
but you know

1489
00:59:56,309 --> 00:59:54,559
that's maybe that's why they kicked me

1490
01:00:00,789 --> 00:59:56,319
out but

1491
01:00:03,589 --> 01:00:00,799
uh i'm you know i've never had any

1492
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:03,599
curiosity for this but i think it's

1493
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:05,440
certainly valid

1494
01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:07,040
science and valid you know brain

1495
01:00:12,309 --> 01:00:08,640
research

1496
01:00:12,710 --> 01:00:12,319
obviously one thing that discouraged me

1497
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:12,720
was

1498
01:00:19,109 --> 01:00:16,640
working with medical people who were

1499
01:00:21,109 --> 01:00:19,119
experimenting with advanced

1500
01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:21,119
pharmaceuticals and so on

1501
01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:25,280
and and what they described was

1502
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:28,640
you know uh

1503
01:00:34,950 --> 01:00:32,640
drugs that our own neural system

1504
01:00:36,470 --> 01:00:34,960
generates you know that can take

1505
01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:36,480
complete control of the mind and the

1506
01:00:39,829 --> 01:00:37,359
body

1507
01:00:41,670 --> 01:00:39,839
and uh so the the drugs that people

1508
01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:41,680
describe for

1509
01:00:48,069 --> 01:00:45,680
an entertainment uh sort of uh mundane

1510
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:48,079
compared to what the normal you know

1511
01:00:52,710 --> 01:00:48,880
what today

1512
01:00:55,109 --> 01:00:52,720
today's pharmacology can do and so

1513
01:00:56,309 --> 01:00:55,119
yes i believe that people have those

1514
01:00:59,190 --> 01:00:56,319
experiences

1515
01:00:59,750 --> 01:00:59,200
but when i ask them can you the next

1516
01:01:02,470 --> 01:00:59,760
time you

1517
01:01:04,390 --> 01:01:02,480
you you take the drug does it take you

1518
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:04,400
back to the same place can you talk to

1519
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:05,440
the same people

1520
01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:07,680
no it's different things every time

1521
01:01:12,309 --> 01:01:10,000
that's entertainment that's dreams

1522
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:12,319
okay that i don't deal with that you

1523
01:01:15,270 --> 01:01:13,200
know what

1524
01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:15,280
the ufo witnesses give me things that

1525
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:16,559
can calibrate

1526
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:18,079
i mean the three cases that are

1527
01:01:24,069 --> 01:01:20,160
described in the book have been

1528
01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:24,079
researched officially by governments

1529
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:26,160
in the french case there were five

1530
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:27,599
different agencies

1531
01:01:31,430 --> 01:01:30,000
that did research on valencia including

1532
01:01:34,710 --> 01:01:31,440
the french customs

1533
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:34,720
including the the french equivalent of

1534
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:36,000
the fbi

1535
01:01:40,470 --> 01:01:37,920
uh including the army including the

1536
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:40,480
police and the jean armory

1537
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:43,760
separately so those were not

1538
01:01:47,430 --> 01:01:46,079
you know those were calibrated and what

1539
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:47,440
they described we can

1540
01:01:51,270 --> 01:01:50,160
we can compare to other cases like

1541
01:01:53,190 --> 01:01:51,280
socorro

1542
01:01:54,549 --> 01:01:53,200
like this case where we have the

1543
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:54,559
equivalent

1544
01:02:01,190 --> 01:01:57,920
level of information that's calibrated

1545
01:02:01,910 --> 01:02:01,200
and uh you know that people take

1546
01:02:05,349 --> 01:02:01,920
ketamine

1547
01:02:06,950 --> 01:02:05,359
or they take some drug in in mexico

1548
01:02:08,710 --> 01:02:06,960
and they come back with these

1549
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:08,720
astonishing stories

1550
01:02:13,510 --> 01:02:11,520
and i believe them but again those are

1551
01:02:15,349 --> 01:02:13,520
not things that are repeatable

1552
01:02:17,910 --> 01:02:15,359
i can't find a pattern that i can work

1553
01:02:19,670 --> 01:02:17,920
with kevin what about you do you see any

1554
01:02:21,109 --> 01:02:19,680
validity to the

1555
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:21,119
proposition that you can ingest

1556
01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:23,520
psychedelics and speak to alien life or

1557
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:25,520
that alien life is somehow

1558
01:02:33,589 --> 01:02:28,799
associated with deep meditative

1559
01:02:37,349 --> 01:02:36,230
um i'm not i don't know the first thing

1560
01:02:41,510 --> 01:02:37,359
about psychedelics

1561
01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:41,520
so um zero i really can't speak to that

1562
01:02:45,109 --> 01:02:42,880
but you're asking two different

1563
01:02:47,029 --> 01:02:45,119
questions there i mean one question is

1564
01:02:49,190 --> 01:02:47,039
can we use pharmacology

1565
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:49,200
to approximate those conditions the

1566
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:50,400
other question is can

1567
01:02:56,230 --> 01:02:54,240
normal consciousness have access to

1568
01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:56,240
other forms of consciousness that's a

1569
01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:57,359
different question

1570
01:03:00,549 --> 01:02:59,760
right yeah so i mean if you're if you're

1571
01:03:02,710 --> 01:03:00,559
i guess my

1572
01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:02,720
my statement would be that if you are

1573
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:04,400
doing something like this

1574
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:06,960
then you are not interacting with

1575
01:03:10,950 --> 01:03:07,920
another

1576
01:03:12,230 --> 01:03:10,960
biological entity per se

1577
01:03:14,230 --> 01:03:12,240
you're interacting with another

1578
01:03:16,069 --> 01:03:14,240
consciousness um

1579
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:16,079
if there isn't any interaction at all if

1580
01:03:21,589 --> 01:03:17,920
it's not a dream or an

1581
01:03:23,589 --> 01:03:21,599
you know hallucination and so

1582
01:03:25,349 --> 01:03:23,599
i think there's just way too much to

1583
01:03:27,349 --> 01:03:25,359
unpack there and

1584
01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:27,359
that would require some careful some

1585
01:03:33,029 --> 01:03:29,520
very careful study which

1586
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:33,039
i'm not i don't know anything about it

1587
01:03:36,870 --> 01:03:35,280
there's a question from raul ranjan who

1588
01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:36,880
said this is directed to you

1589
01:03:40,789 --> 01:03:40,000
jacques you said that the universe is

1590
01:03:42,309 --> 01:03:40,799
nothing but

1591
01:03:44,309 --> 01:03:42,319
mental reality which perceives

1592
01:03:46,069 --> 01:03:44,319
information structures

1593
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:46,079
which seems first of all is that true

1594
01:03:49,589 --> 01:03:47,920
and then second it seems similar to

1595
01:03:51,029 --> 01:03:49,599
donald hoffman's

1596
01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:51,039
theories about consciousness and

1597
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:52,960
conscious agents it's also similar to

1598
01:03:57,349 --> 01:03:55,520
thomas campbell if you've heard of him

1599
01:03:58,789 --> 01:03:57,359
have you heard of those two individuals

1600
01:04:02,950 --> 01:03:58,799
and

1601
01:04:08,150 --> 01:04:02,960
that

1602
01:04:11,190 --> 01:04:08,160
an interaction between data structures

1603
01:04:14,549 --> 01:04:11,200
uh okay saying

1604
01:04:18,549 --> 01:04:14,559
mental states is different from saying

1605
01:04:22,789 --> 01:04:18,559
information structures in physics

1606
01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:25,750
that energy and information are two

1607
01:04:30,950 --> 01:04:27,760
sides of the same coin

1608
01:04:34,069 --> 01:04:30,960
okay and in that ted

1609
01:04:37,510 --> 01:04:34,079
talk you know uh i

1610
01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:37,520
started from that to to say

1611
01:04:43,750 --> 01:04:40,960
yes we can talk about

1612
01:04:45,029 --> 01:04:43,760
you know the theory of everything but

1613
01:04:48,069 --> 01:04:45,039
when people say that

1614
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:48,079
they are doing the theory of energy

1615
01:04:53,270 --> 01:04:50,480
you know atoms and particles and so on

1616
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:53,280
they are not talking about consciousness

1617
01:04:57,430 --> 01:04:56,160
so when i said i want i want a theory of

1618
01:04:59,190 --> 01:04:57,440
everything else

1619
01:05:00,789 --> 01:04:59,200
i'd like a theory of the other side

1620
01:05:04,150 --> 01:05:00,799
which is information

1621
01:05:06,309 --> 01:05:04,160
there should be a theory of information

1622
01:05:08,069 --> 01:05:06,319
that should be equivalent to the theory

1623
01:05:10,950 --> 01:05:08,079
we have of energy

1624
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:10,960
and we should we need to we need both of

1625
01:05:14,069 --> 01:05:11,520
them

1626
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:14,079
to make sense of the universe okay now

1627
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:14,880
you could

1628
01:05:20,069 --> 01:05:18,480
without ever talking about energy you're

1629
01:05:23,029 --> 01:05:20,079
speaking to the right person

1630
01:05:25,670 --> 01:05:23,039
kevin knuth is the editor-in-chief of

1631
01:05:29,270 --> 01:05:25,680
entropy magazine or entropy journal

1632
01:05:31,750 --> 01:05:29,280
well uh the uh

1633
01:05:33,510 --> 01:05:31,760
you know certainly that that's the main

1634
01:05:36,230 --> 01:05:33,520
that's mainstream physics

1635
01:05:38,230 --> 01:05:36,240
saying that you know information and

1636
01:05:40,470 --> 01:05:38,240
energy are two sides of the same

1637
01:05:42,549 --> 01:05:40,480
same coin that's what i was trying to

1638
01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:42,559
address in uh

1639
01:05:46,789 --> 01:05:45,200
in brussels with that ted uh

1640
01:05:49,990 --> 01:05:46,799
presentation

1641
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:50,000
the so you can that gives

1642
01:05:55,109 --> 01:05:53,200
us a chance to approach it from from the

1643
01:05:56,069 --> 01:05:55,119
other direction from the information

1644
01:05:59,190 --> 01:05:56,079
structure

1645
01:05:59,990 --> 01:05:59,200
direction and as you may know there are

1646
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:00,000
people

1647
01:06:07,029 --> 01:06:03,200
now both at mit and in silicon valley

1648
01:06:09,190 --> 01:06:07,039
who are publishing books saying

1649
01:06:11,270 --> 01:06:09,200
what we think we see of the universe is

1650
01:06:15,190 --> 01:06:11,280
a video game

1651
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:15,200
reaction is

1652
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:18,240
wait i mean you know things are

1653
01:06:25,270 --> 01:06:21,920
much more what i see and i can apprehend

1654
01:06:28,870 --> 01:06:25,280
it's much more complex than anything is

1655
01:06:31,029 --> 01:06:28,880
in a video game but think again uh

1656
01:06:33,029 --> 01:06:31,039
you know can you project what a video

1657
01:06:35,430 --> 01:06:33,039
game technology is going to be

1658
01:06:38,230 --> 01:06:35,440
five years ten years from now uh with

1659
01:06:41,589 --> 01:06:38,240
immersion immersion total immersion

1660
01:06:43,829 --> 01:06:41,599
um yes well i from here

1661
01:06:45,750 --> 01:06:43,839
i cannot see the eiffel tower but i'm

1662
01:06:48,069 --> 01:06:45,760
going to be in france in a month

1663
01:06:49,270 --> 01:06:48,079
i will see the eiffel tower all i can

1664
01:06:53,029 --> 01:06:49,280
see now is

1665
01:06:56,069 --> 01:06:53,039
the the screens in front of me and you

1666
01:06:59,750 --> 01:06:56,079
i know there are things behind me

1667
01:07:01,990 --> 01:06:59,760
but i don't see them i only see them

1668
01:07:03,829 --> 01:07:02,000
by looking at the screen you know that

1669
01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:03,839
shows the things behind me

1670
01:07:08,789 --> 01:07:08,160
but i can simulate that today with a pc

1671
01:07:10,950 --> 01:07:08,799
i mean

1672
01:07:12,710 --> 01:07:10,960
that's not a problem and i can make you

1673
01:07:15,349 --> 01:07:12,720
think that you're really there

1674
01:07:16,630 --> 01:07:15,359
okay certainly with one of the the game

1675
01:07:19,190 --> 01:07:16,640
machines

1676
01:07:21,510 --> 01:07:19,200
you know it's not a problem with the

1677
01:07:24,710 --> 01:07:21,520
semiconductor technology we've got today

1678
01:07:27,029 --> 01:07:24,720
okay so uh and when you talk about the

1679
01:07:29,510 --> 01:07:27,039
simulations that they use to train

1680
01:07:30,230 --> 01:07:29,520
pilots or to train surgeons you know

1681
01:07:33,510 --> 01:07:30,240
that's

1682
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:33,520
a hundred times better than that so yes

1683
01:07:38,069 --> 01:07:34,799
we can immerse you

1684
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:38,079
in in a situation where you would not be

1685
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:39,280
able to tell

1686
01:07:45,349 --> 01:07:42,559
reality from the simulation and

1687
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:45,359
that's you know obviously very scary but

1688
01:07:48,630 --> 01:07:45,680
uh

1689
01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:48,640
that's the world where we're creating

1690
01:07:53,670 --> 01:07:49,760
right now

1691
01:07:55,589 --> 01:07:53,680
and so the the question of

1692
01:07:56,710 --> 01:07:55,599
approaching it from the information

1693
01:08:00,470 --> 01:07:56,720
structure

1694
01:08:02,789 --> 01:08:00,480
standpoint is interesting and the

1695
01:08:03,670 --> 01:08:02,799
the question is without going all the

1696
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:03,680
way there

1697
01:08:08,230 --> 01:08:07,200
the the question remains is somebody or

1698
01:08:10,950 --> 01:08:08,240
something

1699
01:08:12,710 --> 01:08:10,960
in the universe you know with no

1700
01:08:15,990 --> 01:08:12,720
preconception that there are

1701
01:08:17,829 --> 01:08:16,000
spaceships uh i mean this this doesn't

1702
01:08:20,229 --> 01:08:17,839
look like a spaceship i mean

1703
01:08:21,189 --> 01:08:20,239
you know it did the controls were very

1704
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:21,199
simple

1705
01:08:25,590 --> 01:08:23,279
if there were controls there was

1706
01:08:27,910 --> 01:08:25,600
practically nothing inside

1707
01:08:30,149 --> 01:08:27,920
there was no kitchen there were no

1708
01:08:31,669 --> 01:08:30,159
toilet facilities there was none of

1709
01:08:35,349 --> 01:08:31,679
the things that people look for when

1710
01:08:39,749 --> 01:08:35,359
they think of ufos as a spacecraft okay

1711
01:08:41,430 --> 01:08:39,759
none of that so but neither do our cars

1712
01:08:46,550 --> 01:08:41,440
and we would call our cars some sort of

1713
01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:50,229
well we we don't know what it is uh

1714
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:53,520
it could be a donation uh why does it

1715
01:08:58,070 --> 01:08:56,080
have the same shape as

1716
01:08:59,829 --> 01:08:58,080
two other objects that were used in the

1717
01:09:03,990 --> 01:08:59,839
manhattan project

1718
01:09:07,110 --> 01:09:04,000
uh you know the the container for the

1719
01:09:10,390 --> 01:09:07,120
experimental explosions which they call

1720
01:09:13,990 --> 01:09:10,400
jumbo was the same size and the same

1721
01:09:15,749 --> 01:09:14,000
shape it was built by

1722
01:09:18,390 --> 01:09:15,759
you know the manhattan project to

1723
01:09:20,470 --> 01:09:18,400
contain nuclear explosions

1724
01:09:22,789 --> 01:09:20,480
it was never used that way but i've seen

1725
01:09:26,070 --> 01:09:22,799
it i've gone there and touched it

1726
01:09:27,110 --> 01:09:26,080
it's uh you know about eight eight

1727
01:09:31,430 --> 01:09:27,120
inches

1728
01:09:33,990 --> 01:09:31,440
thick of steel all the way around um

1729
01:09:35,430 --> 01:09:34,000
it was brought in with a special you

1730
01:09:38,630 --> 01:09:35,440
know

1731
01:09:40,470 --> 01:09:38,640
trailer with many many uh mini wheels

1732
01:09:43,829 --> 01:09:40,480
all the way from ohio

1733
01:09:45,829 --> 01:09:43,839
uh that the object that crashed that's

1734
01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:45,839
sort of the same shape

1735
01:09:49,749 --> 01:09:48,560
uh it has the same shape as the bomb i

1736
01:09:51,829 --> 01:09:49,759
have a question for

1737
01:09:53,749 --> 01:09:51,839
sorry for both of you do you have any

1738
01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:53,759
ideas or speculations as to what the

1739
01:09:58,149 --> 01:09:54,480
intent

1740
01:10:01,030 --> 01:09:58,159
are of these aliens or ufos

1741
01:10:02,550 --> 01:10:01,040
firstly can they be classified as such

1742
01:10:03,669 --> 01:10:02,560
are there multiple species and maybe

1743
01:10:07,110 --> 01:10:03,679
they have

1744
01:10:10,229 --> 01:10:07,120
contrary motives what do you think

1745
01:10:10,239 --> 01:10:14,550
and then

1746
01:10:18,070 --> 01:10:16,630
i think it's at this point it's still

1747
01:10:22,390 --> 01:10:18,080
quite difficult because

1748
01:10:26,149 --> 01:10:24,070
it's not clear that you're dealing with

1749
01:10:28,229 --> 01:10:26,159
a single phenomenon

1750
01:10:29,189 --> 01:10:28,239
um and we're we're very likely

1751
01:10:32,870 --> 01:10:29,199
conflating

1752
01:10:36,550 --> 01:10:32,880
multiple you know multiple phenomena

1753
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:36,560
and so that's very probably

1754
01:10:40,630 --> 01:10:39,600
why we we are having trouble pinning

1755
01:10:43,110 --> 01:10:40,640
things down

1756
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:43,120
and saying oh it's it's this and not

1757
01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:44,400
that

1758
01:10:49,990 --> 01:10:47,520
um because in some cases it may be maybe

1759
01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:50,000
um case a and might there might also be

1760
01:10:54,950 --> 01:10:51,040
case b

1761
01:10:57,110 --> 01:10:54,960
so i think that at this point we just

1762
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:57,120
we're very ignorant as to what's going

1763
01:11:01,830 --> 01:10:58,560
on and

1764
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:01,840
um this ignorance has been

1765
01:11:05,830 --> 01:11:04,080
you know perpetuated by our government

1766
01:11:06,870 --> 01:11:05,840
who insists on studying these things

1767
01:11:08,630 --> 01:11:06,880
secretly

1768
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:08,640
which we now know that they've been

1769
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:10,960
doing for years um they've

1770
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:12,640
they've made that very clear with the

1771
01:11:15,189 --> 01:11:14,400
coming out of the a-tip program and the

1772
01:11:17,669 --> 01:11:15,199
fact that

1773
01:11:19,590 --> 01:11:17,679
congress has to collect information from

1774
01:11:21,350 --> 01:11:19,600
the intelligence agencies

1775
01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:21,360
um where did that information come from

1776
01:11:25,350 --> 01:11:23,520
if they hadn't been studying this

1777
01:11:27,030 --> 01:11:25,360
so we know we know that they've been

1778
01:11:29,669 --> 01:11:27,040
studying it secretly

1779
01:11:30,550 --> 01:11:29,679
um and congress doesn't even know about

1780
01:11:33,270 --> 01:11:30,560
it so

1781
01:11:35,910 --> 01:11:33,280
there's a lot of ignorance here and it's

1782
01:11:39,270 --> 01:11:35,920
also perpetuated by scientists who are

1783
01:11:40,870 --> 01:11:39,280
more interested in just

1784
01:11:42,950 --> 01:11:40,880
just believing the whole thing

1785
01:11:44,470 --> 01:11:42,960
altogether and and washing their hands

1786
01:11:46,310 --> 01:11:44,480
of it and not wanting to look at the

1787
01:11:49,510 --> 01:11:46,320
problem

1788
01:11:52,229 --> 01:11:49,520
so i've i've really come to appreciate

1789
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:52,239
people i'll often claim oh the you know

1790
01:11:55,350 --> 01:11:53,600
people the believers

1791
01:11:56,950 --> 01:11:55,360
you know there's a strong desire to

1792
01:11:57,910 --> 01:11:56,960
believe but what i've really found is

1793
01:11:59,750 --> 01:11:57,920
that

1794
01:12:01,430 --> 01:11:59,760
people don't like changing their world

1795
01:12:02,470 --> 01:12:01,440
views they're very uncomfortable

1796
01:12:05,510 --> 01:12:02,480
changing their

1797
01:12:07,910 --> 01:12:05,520
world view and the desire to not believe

1798
01:12:08,950 --> 01:12:07,920
is far stronger than the desire to

1799
01:12:11,990 --> 01:12:08,960
believe

1800
01:12:12,390 --> 01:12:12,000
um and and of course with science it

1801
01:12:13,910 --> 01:12:12,400
isn't

1802
01:12:15,430 --> 01:12:13,920
shouldn't be about belief it should be

1803
01:12:18,630 --> 01:12:15,440
about knowing but

1804
01:12:20,310 --> 01:12:18,640
you see more scientists are more

1805
01:12:22,390 --> 01:12:20,320
there are so many scientists who are

1806
01:12:24,550 --> 01:12:22,400
more than willing to write editorials

1807
01:12:26,229 --> 01:12:24,560
talking about how skeptical they are

1808
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:26,239
um where they haven't actually looked at

1809
01:12:30,229 --> 01:12:27,760
the problem

1810
01:12:32,149 --> 01:12:30,239
and so they're more interested in saying

1811
01:12:35,990 --> 01:12:32,159
i'm skeptical i don't believe

1812
01:12:38,790 --> 01:12:36,000
um then they are curious there's a

1813
01:12:39,189 --> 01:12:38,800
surprising lack of curiosity here which

1814
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:39,199
um

1815
01:12:43,750 --> 01:12:42,000
really that shouldn't that shouldn't

1816
01:12:44,950 --> 01:12:43,760
happen in science and certainly not when

1817
01:12:46,790 --> 01:12:44,960
you have some

1818
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:46,800
you know fascinating stories like this

1819
01:12:52,470 --> 01:12:48,880
and fascinating anecdotes like this

1820
01:12:52,870 --> 01:12:52,480
it's not there's something very wrong

1821
01:12:55,350 --> 01:12:52,880
here

1822
01:12:57,110 --> 01:12:55,360
and i think it's the fact that people

1823
01:12:58,550 --> 01:12:57,120
don't want their world views changed

1824
01:13:01,669 --> 01:12:58,560
they don't want to believe this

1825
01:13:04,709 --> 01:13:01,679
and it's now i don't think

1826
01:13:05,830 --> 01:13:04,719
that proving that something is alien is

1827
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:05,840
going to be

1828
01:13:10,229 --> 01:13:07,679
proving something's extraterrestrial is

1829
01:13:13,030 --> 01:13:10,239
going to be really incredibly difficult

1830
01:13:15,430 --> 01:13:13,040
i you know we already have some

1831
01:13:17,990 --> 01:13:15,440
information about the uap task report

1832
01:13:19,430 --> 01:13:18,000
and you know and and there's been some

1833
01:13:21,030 --> 01:13:19,440
statements made that they're

1834
01:13:23,270 --> 01:13:21,040
yeah they're not saying that there's

1835
01:13:25,430 --> 01:13:23,280
proof that they are extraterrestrial but

1836
01:13:27,030 --> 01:13:25,440
they can't rule it out either and that's

1837
01:13:28,470 --> 01:13:27,040
exactly what i would have expected

1838
01:13:30,229 --> 01:13:28,480
because

1839
01:13:31,910 --> 01:13:30,239
um how do you prove that something is

1840
01:13:34,630 --> 01:13:31,920
extraterrestrial everything in the

1841
01:13:37,750 --> 01:13:34,640
universe is made of the same stuff

1842
01:13:40,149 --> 01:13:37,760
you could do studies of isotopes

1843
01:13:43,110 --> 01:13:40,159
and that could be informative but it

1844
01:13:45,110 --> 01:13:43,120
doesn't it's not conclusive because

1845
01:13:46,790 --> 01:13:45,120
we can isolate different isotopes here

1846
01:13:48,390 --> 01:13:46,800
and create materials with

1847
01:13:50,070 --> 01:13:48,400
different isotopes we don't we don't

1848
01:13:51,910 --> 01:13:50,080
typically do that it would be horribly

1849
01:13:53,510 --> 01:13:51,920
expensive and so you'd be surprised if

1850
01:13:56,709 --> 01:13:53,520
that were the case but

1851
01:13:59,430 --> 01:13:56,719
but it doesn't rule it out so i i often

1852
01:14:02,390 --> 01:13:59,440
joke that to prove that one of these

1853
01:14:03,830 --> 01:14:02,400
things is extraterrestrial you're into

1854
01:14:04,950 --> 01:14:03,840
to prove that to everybody you're going

1855
01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:04,960
to have to almost

1856
01:14:10,390 --> 01:14:07,920
drag an alien off of one of these craft

1857
01:14:11,910 --> 01:14:10,400
on live television kicking and screaming

1858
01:14:14,070 --> 01:14:11,920
you know for everyone to say oh yeah

1859
01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:14,080
clearly this is extraterrestrial

1860
01:14:17,669 --> 01:14:15,120
that's pretty much what you're gonna

1861
01:14:19,830 --> 01:14:17,679
have to do before people

1862
01:14:21,510 --> 01:14:19,840
will have to be forced to believe this

1863
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:21,520
before they have to give up on this

1864
01:14:26,790 --> 01:14:23,920
desire to not believe

1865
01:14:28,550 --> 01:14:26,800
um so but i think at this point we have

1866
01:14:31,270 --> 01:14:28,560
a lot of

1867
01:14:33,430 --> 01:14:31,280
there is no smoking gun you know as

1868
01:14:33,830 --> 01:14:33,440
michio kaku has talked about the smoking

1869
01:14:35,590 --> 01:14:33,840
gun

1870
01:14:37,430 --> 01:14:35,600
and there's not going to be a smoking

1871
01:14:39,750 --> 01:14:37,440
gun it's not going to happen

1872
01:14:41,350 --> 01:14:39,760
you're going to get lots of little

1873
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:41,360
pieces of information

1874
01:14:44,790 --> 01:14:43,440
and some of this information is going to

1875
01:14:47,590 --> 01:14:44,800
be more reliable

1876
01:14:51,030 --> 01:14:47,600
like materials research than other types

1877
01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:51,040
of information which would be anecdotal

1878
01:14:55,510 --> 01:14:53,360
types of information and yeah the

1879
01:14:57,669 --> 01:14:55,520
reliability varies but you can still

1880
01:14:59,990 --> 01:14:57,679
make inferences from lots of little

1881
01:15:02,470 --> 01:15:00,000
pieces of information we're not stupid

1882
01:15:04,550 --> 01:15:02,480
we can use our brains and we can assess

1883
01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:04,560
the information assess how

1884
01:15:08,630 --> 01:15:06,400
valid we think the different pieces are

1885
01:15:10,709 --> 01:15:08,640
and we can get somewhere with that

1886
01:15:12,229 --> 01:15:10,719
and that's what i'm trying to do here

1887
01:15:15,430 --> 01:15:12,239
and

1888
01:15:17,590 --> 01:15:15,440
these

1889
01:15:19,350 --> 01:15:17,600
anecdotes are really shocking and

1890
01:15:22,390 --> 01:15:19,360
surprising and different it's

1891
01:15:23,270 --> 01:15:22,400
we're not just looking at changing your

1892
01:15:26,950 --> 01:15:23,280
world view

1893
01:15:30,630 --> 01:15:26,960
with respect to one topic

1894
01:15:33,750 --> 01:15:30,640
um that and that isn't j so it clearly

1895
01:15:36,950 --> 01:15:33,760
isn't just that oh there are

1896
01:15:38,550 --> 01:15:36,960
there exist extraterrestrials exist

1897
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:38,560
that isn't the only thing i'm going to

1898
01:15:41,510 --> 01:15:40,320
have to try to believe i'm going to have

1899
01:15:43,990 --> 01:15:41,520
to now also

1900
01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:44,000
deal with the fact that they can they

1901
01:15:47,910 --> 01:15:46,480
can will themselves from place to place

1902
01:15:50,550 --> 01:15:47,920
in some cases

1903
01:15:51,030 --> 01:15:50,560
they can communicate telepathically in

1904
01:15:54,310 --> 01:15:51,040
some

1905
01:15:55,270 --> 01:15:54,320
cases or or transmit images and things

1906
01:15:59,030 --> 01:15:55,280
like this and

1907
01:16:02,390 --> 01:15:59,040
and the motivations of course are

1908
01:16:05,030 --> 01:16:02,400
entirely foreign to us so it's it's

1909
01:16:06,950 --> 01:16:05,040
the the whole thing is is in some ways

1910
01:16:09,350 --> 01:16:06,960
it's a mess but

1911
01:16:10,310 --> 01:16:09,360
but as a scientist it's a fascinating

1912
01:16:13,350 --> 01:16:10,320
mess i mean

1913
01:16:14,310 --> 01:16:13,360
this is this is exactly what you want to

1914
01:16:15,910 --> 01:16:14,320
come across when

1915
01:16:18,390 --> 01:16:15,920
i mean when you go into science when i

1916
01:16:20,790 --> 01:16:18,400
when i first went into science i

1917
01:16:22,790 --> 01:16:20,800
i was disappointed because as i'm

1918
01:16:26,070 --> 01:16:22,800
learning more and more about physics i

1919
01:16:28,229 --> 01:16:26,080
i'm realizing there's nothing to

1920
01:16:29,990 --> 01:16:28,239
be done it's all been studied and all

1921
01:16:31,669 --> 01:16:30,000
the interesting stuff's been done and

1922
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:31,679
studied and and

1923
01:16:35,110 --> 01:16:33,360
i really wanted to learn about space and

1924
01:16:36,790 --> 01:16:35,120
time and i was disappointed learning

1925
01:16:38,470 --> 01:16:36,800
about relativity and general relativity

1926
01:16:38,790 --> 01:16:38,480
i thought einstein did it all already

1927
01:16:41,350 --> 01:16:38,800
what

1928
01:16:41,990 --> 01:16:41,360
am i going to do and and it took me a

1929
01:16:43,990 --> 01:16:42,000
long time

1930
01:16:46,310 --> 01:16:44,000
years and decades to be able to figure

1931
01:16:48,870 --> 01:16:46,320
out well it hasn't all been figured out

1932
01:16:52,390 --> 01:16:48,880
and there is stuff to still do

1933
01:16:53,030 --> 01:16:52,400
but um to have events like this thrown

1934
01:16:58,709 --> 01:16:53,040
at you

1935
01:17:01,270 --> 01:16:58,719
out being a scientist

1936
01:17:01,990 --> 01:17:01,280
here's something entirely foreign that

1937
01:17:05,030 --> 01:17:02,000
nobody knows

1938
01:17:07,830 --> 01:17:05,040
anything about um

1939
01:17:08,310 --> 01:17:07,840
and go at it see what we can learn

1940
01:17:12,870 --> 01:17:08,320
that's

1941
01:17:14,870 --> 01:17:12,880
would have imagined

1942
01:17:16,310 --> 01:17:14,880
galileo felt like you know he first

1943
01:17:17,910 --> 01:17:16,320
pulls out the telescope

1944
01:17:19,910 --> 01:17:17,920
that he made and now let's look at the

1945
01:17:23,189 --> 01:17:19,920
sky and see what i can find

1946
01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:23,199
that's that's how exciting was that

1947
01:17:27,270 --> 01:17:24,960
um and now we're we're in that same

1948
01:17:29,189 --> 01:17:27,280
situation and and

1949
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:29,199
there are scientists jumping on board

1950
01:17:32,070 --> 01:17:30,480
now now that it's

1951
01:17:34,390 --> 01:17:32,080
clear that these things are are

1952
01:17:37,830 --> 01:17:34,400
physically real um

1953
01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:37,840
and that's changed but the amount the

1954
01:17:43,189 --> 01:17:40,480
curiosity still isn't there

1955
01:17:44,229 --> 01:17:43,199
which to me is really shocking um i

1956
01:17:46,149 --> 01:17:44,239
don't know

1957
01:17:47,590 --> 01:17:46,159
what's broken within the scientific

1958
01:17:49,669 --> 01:17:47,600
community but i

1959
01:17:51,510 --> 01:17:49,679
very much of it is probably because

1960
01:17:55,189 --> 01:17:51,520
we've been told

1961
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:55,199
since birth you know for most of us that

1962
01:17:58,550 --> 01:17:57,600
this this is nonsense um we've been

1963
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:58,560
taught that by

1964
01:18:01,750 --> 01:18:00,239
you know by other scientists we've been

1965
01:18:02,870 --> 01:18:01,760
taught that by our teachers told that by

1966
01:18:06,229 --> 01:18:02,880
our parents

1967
01:18:07,350 --> 01:18:06,239
and by the authorities and now we find

1968
01:18:09,270 --> 01:18:07,360
out that the authorities

1969
01:18:11,270 --> 01:18:09,280
know it's not nonsense and they've not

1970
01:18:13,990 --> 01:18:11,280
been treating it like nonsense

1971
01:18:15,910 --> 01:18:14,000
um and we're still having trouble

1972
01:18:18,070 --> 01:18:15,920
getting our heads around this well

1973
01:18:19,990 --> 01:18:18,080
okay so clearly there's something and

1974
01:18:20,310 --> 01:18:20,000
and the most science most scientists

1975
01:18:23,030 --> 01:18:20,320
have

1976
01:18:23,750 --> 01:18:23,040
just simply conceded which was the first

1977
01:18:25,750 --> 01:18:23,760
thing i was

1978
01:18:27,830 --> 01:18:25,760
felt comfortable doing was that all

1979
01:18:29,270 --> 01:18:27,840
right well certainly it's something that

1980
01:18:31,430 --> 01:18:29,280
should be studied

1981
01:18:33,830 --> 01:18:31,440
um but you still see most scientists

1982
01:18:35,910 --> 01:18:33,840
saying but i'm not gonna do it

1983
01:18:37,110 --> 01:18:35,920
well what kind of scientist are you i

1984
01:18:40,630 --> 01:18:37,120
mean what you're not

1985
01:18:43,990 --> 01:18:40,640
you're not hungry for a cool discovery

1986
01:18:46,310 --> 01:18:44,000
when i presented um my

1987
01:18:47,910 --> 01:18:46,320
my paper on the um flight

1988
01:18:49,669 --> 01:18:47,920
characteristics of uaps

1989
01:18:51,430 --> 01:18:49,679
at the muck splunk institute at the

1990
01:18:53,270 --> 01:18:51,440
mexican conference there

1991
01:18:55,669 --> 01:18:53,280
you know i started out by saying you

1992
01:18:58,149 --> 01:18:55,679
know asking the question

1993
01:18:58,709 --> 01:18:58,159
why on earth would i be looking at this

1994
01:19:04,870 --> 01:18:58,719
and

1995
01:19:06,470 --> 01:19:04,880
the answer is simple because there's

1996
01:19:09,590 --> 01:19:06,480
discoveries to be made here

1997
01:19:10,550 --> 01:19:09,600
and to be this close to it and have that

1998
01:19:13,910 --> 01:19:10,560
opportunity

1999
01:19:15,350 --> 01:19:13,920
and then just let it pass by

2000
01:19:17,270 --> 01:19:15,360
i'm going to be kicking i would be

2001
01:19:18,790 --> 01:19:17,280
kicking myself for years you know for

2002
01:19:20,470 --> 01:19:18,800
the rest of my life why didn't i take

2003
01:19:22,870 --> 01:19:20,480
the time to even look at that

2004
01:19:23,510 --> 01:19:22,880
you know and that's how i that's what i

2005
01:19:24,790 --> 01:19:23,520
felt and i

2006
01:19:27,510 --> 01:19:24,800
really did some soul searching and

2007
01:19:30,149 --> 01:19:27,520
thought no i'm gonna study this i'm

2008
01:19:30,790 --> 01:19:30,159
you know i'm now 57 years old i have a

2009
01:19:33,110 --> 01:19:30,800
good

2010
01:19:34,630 --> 01:19:33,120
easily attend another 10 years probably

2011
01:19:37,830 --> 01:19:34,640
of research in me maybe

2012
01:19:38,630 --> 01:19:37,840
hopefully more but um i've done some

2013
01:19:42,229 --> 01:19:38,640
good work

2014
01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:42,239
on in other topics and why not have some

2015
01:19:44,630 --> 01:19:43,920
fun and look at something that's brand

2016
01:19:47,430 --> 01:19:44,640
new

2017
01:19:48,870 --> 01:19:47,440
that no one knows anything about and

2018
01:19:50,950 --> 01:19:48,880
let's see what we can learn from that

2019
01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:50,960
and i think that's really exciting

2020
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:54,800
so i'm really wavered i

2021
01:19:58,070 --> 01:19:56,159
sped off in a totally different

2022
01:19:59,430 --> 01:19:58,080
direction with almost impossible

2023
01:20:02,709 --> 01:19:59,440
acceleration there

2024
01:20:05,750 --> 01:20:02,719
so let me go back to your your

2025
01:20:09,669 --> 01:20:05,760
um your what your original question was

2026
01:20:10,470 --> 01:20:09,679
um had to do with um the motive behind

2027
01:20:13,030 --> 01:20:10,480
these

2028
01:20:14,709 --> 01:20:13,040
motives behind can you even ascribe one

2029
01:20:16,790 --> 01:20:14,719
motive because it may be

2030
01:20:18,709 --> 01:20:16,800
a multiplicity of phenomenon rather than

2031
01:20:21,590 --> 01:20:18,719
just one

2032
01:20:22,470 --> 01:20:21,600
and i don't know i mean the the simplest

2033
01:20:26,149 --> 01:20:22,480
explanation

2034
01:20:29,430 --> 01:20:26,159
that that seems to cover

2035
01:20:31,430 --> 01:20:29,440
much of the of what's observed is

2036
01:20:33,910 --> 01:20:31,440
that they are very possibly

2037
01:20:36,950 --> 01:20:33,920
extraterrestrial visiting earth

2038
01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:36,960
you know in spacecraft um

2039
01:20:42,229 --> 01:20:40,560
why would you think that well the

2040
01:20:44,310 --> 01:20:42,239
beings that are observed appear to be

2041
01:20:45,910 --> 01:20:44,320
biological but they're not human

2042
01:20:47,830 --> 01:20:45,920
and we don't see them here on earth

2043
01:20:51,030 --> 01:20:47,840
other than during these events

2044
01:20:52,229 --> 01:20:51,040
so they very are thought to be up from

2045
01:20:55,270 --> 01:20:52,239
elsewhere

2046
01:20:56,950 --> 01:20:55,280
um the craft behave

2047
01:20:58,790 --> 01:20:56,960
as i said before with from the

2048
01:21:01,030 --> 01:20:58,800
especially from the estimates we

2049
01:21:02,870 --> 01:21:01,040
performed these craft move like

2050
01:21:05,510 --> 01:21:02,880
spaceships should move

2051
01:21:06,310 --> 01:21:05,520
um they move at speeds and ex they move

2052
01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:06,320
at speeds

2053
01:21:11,750 --> 01:21:09,360
that our spacecraft move ahead

2054
01:21:13,189 --> 01:21:11,760
so to think that they're not spacecraft

2055
01:21:15,750 --> 01:21:13,199
would be kind of silly

2056
01:21:17,030 --> 01:21:15,760
um they're very potentially very much

2057
01:21:20,229 --> 01:21:17,040
potentially spacecraft

2058
01:21:22,709 --> 01:21:20,239
so um but

2059
01:21:23,510 --> 01:21:22,719
we have we observed them moving in space

2060
01:21:26,070 --> 01:21:23,520
well we don't

2061
01:21:27,350 --> 01:21:26,080
i don't know that yet so that's an

2062
01:21:29,590 --> 01:21:27,360
important question there

2063
01:21:30,470 --> 01:21:29,600
so jacques have we do you know of any

2064
01:21:32,870 --> 01:21:30,480
cases where

2065
01:21:34,950 --> 01:21:32,880
we've seen ufo in space and also about

2066
01:21:38,229 --> 01:21:34,960
the motive question your speculations

2067
01:21:39,669 --> 01:21:38,239
from there's there um there's a few

2068
01:21:43,030 --> 01:21:39,679
cosmonauts who've reported

2069
01:21:47,430 --> 01:21:43,040
ufos from space and there are um and

2070
01:21:50,870 --> 01:21:47,440
i think it's um um cosmonaut often yes

2071
01:21:52,709 --> 01:21:50,880
actually had drawings of a a an

2072
01:21:54,390 --> 01:21:52,719
object that pulled up alongside their

2073
01:21:59,110 --> 01:21:54,400
spaceship on the

2074
01:22:01,110 --> 01:21:59,120
way to one of the solute stations

2075
01:22:03,110 --> 01:22:01,120
so there have been there have been some

2076
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:03,120
and and there have been sightings from

2077
01:22:10,390 --> 01:22:06,719
skylab and shuttles as well of of

2078
01:22:11,990 --> 01:22:10,400
more ambiguous objects so so potentially

2079
01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:12,000
these things have been observed in space

2080
01:22:16,629 --> 01:22:12,960
but

2081
01:22:18,149 --> 01:22:16,639
the same where we can

2082
01:22:19,669 --> 01:22:18,159
confidently say these are the same

2083
01:22:22,070 --> 01:22:19,679
objects you know this is an

2084
01:22:23,590 --> 01:22:22,080
egg-shaped object you know that crashed

2085
01:22:25,110 --> 01:22:23,600
in new mexico looks

2086
01:22:26,870 --> 01:22:25,120
you know what i saw from my spacecraft

2087
01:22:29,189 --> 01:22:26,880
window looks the same thing as what

2088
01:22:31,430 --> 01:22:29,199
you know lonnie zamora reported i don't

2089
01:22:34,229 --> 01:22:31,440
think we are in that situation

2090
01:22:36,070 --> 01:22:34,239
jacques what about what your thoughts

2091
01:22:40,229 --> 01:22:36,080
are

2092
01:22:42,950 --> 01:22:40,239
i've heard both sides of that um

2093
01:22:44,790 --> 01:22:42,960
you know had the uh the privilege of

2094
01:22:48,310 --> 01:22:44,800
working with uh

2095
01:22:49,750 --> 01:22:48,320
ed mitchell at uh on on the board of uh

2096
01:22:52,310 --> 01:22:49,760
you know one of the

2097
01:22:53,750 --> 01:22:52,320
the groups that have tried to to advance

2098
01:22:57,110 --> 01:22:53,760
the study of uh

2099
01:22:59,189 --> 01:22:57,120
of the subject and he of course

2100
01:23:00,550 --> 01:22:59,199
would be trusted by his fellow

2101
01:23:03,110 --> 01:23:00,560
astronauts and

2102
01:23:03,990 --> 01:23:03,120
especially the the ones who went to the

2103
01:23:07,030 --> 01:23:04,000
moon

2104
01:23:11,030 --> 01:23:07,040
uh the apollo the apollo cadre

2105
01:23:13,910 --> 01:23:11,040
um and uh yes he reported

2106
01:23:14,629 --> 01:23:13,920
that they had seen things but they would

2107
01:23:17,750 --> 01:23:14,639
not

2108
01:23:20,870 --> 01:23:17,760
report it officially um

2109
01:23:23,350 --> 01:23:20,880
one one astronaut was a general

2110
01:23:24,790 --> 01:23:23,360
um who had been in in space several

2111
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:24,800
times

2112
01:23:29,750 --> 01:23:28,080
photographed an object that he described

2113
01:23:34,870 --> 01:23:29,760
as a ufo

2114
01:23:36,500 --> 01:23:34,880
uh with a his hasselblad camera um

2115
01:23:37,910 --> 01:23:36,510
when they landed um

2116
01:23:39,910 --> 01:23:37,920
[Music]

2117
01:23:41,910 --> 01:23:39,920
and i served on on the board at the

2118
01:23:46,149 --> 01:23:41,920
university of michigan with him

2119
01:23:47,910 --> 01:23:46,159
at one time uh the

2120
01:23:49,830 --> 01:23:47,920
nasa of course when you when you land

2121
01:23:52,229 --> 01:23:49,840
they take everything that's on the

2122
01:23:53,750 --> 01:23:52,239
spacecraft and it goes to different labs

2123
01:23:56,790 --> 01:23:53,760
right away and so on so

2124
01:24:01,030 --> 01:23:56,800
he didn't the camera was taken away

2125
01:24:04,149 --> 01:24:01,040
from him and everything else and uh

2126
01:24:06,550 --> 01:24:04,159
he asked to see his photograph

2127
01:24:07,350 --> 01:24:06,560
and at first they wouldn't give it to

2128
01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:07,360
him

2129
01:24:13,669 --> 01:24:10,400
i'll discuss it and he insisted

2130
01:24:15,270 --> 01:24:13,679
because he had the seniority to tell the

2131
01:24:17,189 --> 01:24:15,280
technicians that he wanted to

2132
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:17,199
the photograph and they gave him a

2133
01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:18,960
picture that

2134
01:24:26,870 --> 01:24:22,800
he said under the record

2135
01:24:30,390 --> 01:24:29,350
and this was an object that was close to

2136
01:24:33,510 --> 01:24:30,400
the spacecraft

2137
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:37,669
tracking apollo

2138
01:24:44,709 --> 01:24:41,189
now what was it

2139
01:24:47,110 --> 01:24:44,719
uh you know the uh

2140
01:24:48,629 --> 01:24:47,120
yes you can argue about pictures you can

2141
01:24:51,669 --> 01:24:48,639
argue all day long

2142
01:24:53,910 --> 01:24:51,679
about pictures was it some part that

2143
01:24:55,910 --> 01:24:53,920
had detached itself from the spacecraft

2144
01:24:58,390 --> 01:24:55,920
was flying along but

2145
01:24:59,110 --> 01:24:58,400
it didn't fly along i mean it went away

2146
01:25:01,910 --> 01:24:59,120
so

2147
01:25:03,189 --> 01:25:01,920
and he had taken a picture and didn't

2148
01:25:06,229 --> 01:25:03,199
recognize

2149
01:25:10,070 --> 01:25:06,239
the photograph that they gave him

2150
01:25:11,510 --> 01:25:10,080
and he was actually very irate about

2151
01:25:14,709 --> 01:25:11,520
that that whole thing

2152
01:25:16,229 --> 01:25:14,719
that he was trusted to you know to pilot

2153
01:25:19,669 --> 01:25:16,239
the spacecraft to the moon that he was

2154
01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:19,679
entrusted to look at his own picture

2155
01:25:24,550 --> 01:25:22,239
and that's that's uh you know there is

2156
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:24,560
another case like that in the book that

2157
01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:28,080
you mentioned about a physical object

2158
01:25:34,070 --> 01:25:31,120
that was analyzed by nasa

2159
01:25:35,910 --> 01:25:34,080
and then nasa was superseded by another

2160
01:25:39,750 --> 01:25:35,920
agency and the men who had

2161
01:25:42,950 --> 01:25:39,760
entrusted the sample to

2162
01:25:43,910 --> 01:25:42,960
never had the right answer and and we

2163
01:25:46,950 --> 01:25:43,920
know that

2164
01:25:48,310 --> 01:25:46,960
he was given a lie not by nasa but nasa

2165
01:25:50,629 --> 01:25:48,320
was pushed aside

2166
01:25:51,590 --> 01:25:50,639
and somebody else took over so the

2167
01:25:55,030 --> 01:25:51,600
question is

2168
01:25:57,110 --> 01:25:55,040
um you know what the subject in new

2169
01:26:00,470 --> 01:25:57,120
mexico i mean obviously

2170
01:26:03,430 --> 01:26:00,480
that was real and it was

2171
01:26:05,990 --> 01:26:03,440
waiting a few times where did it go and

2172
01:26:08,629 --> 01:26:06,000
how come dr heineck didn't know about it

2173
01:26:09,910 --> 01:26:08,639
how come nobody in the air force knew

2174
01:26:12,229 --> 01:26:09,920
about it then when

2175
01:26:14,310 --> 01:26:12,239
you know i spent two days at

2176
01:26:17,030 --> 01:26:14,320
wright-patterson air force base

2177
01:26:18,070 --> 01:26:17,040
with the air force project blue book

2178
01:26:21,669 --> 01:26:18,080
team

2179
01:26:23,910 --> 01:26:21,679
with dr heineck and uh by the way none

2180
01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:23,920
of that was classified i mean very very

2181
01:26:27,910 --> 01:26:24,880
little of it

2182
01:26:30,229 --> 01:26:27,920
was classified and you know scientists

2183
01:26:33,270 --> 01:26:30,239
could have had access to it all along

2184
01:26:34,550 --> 01:26:33,280
and when i read the the report from the

2185
01:26:37,030 --> 01:26:34,560
task force

2186
01:26:38,470 --> 01:26:37,040
you know i have this deja vu you know

2187
01:26:41,669 --> 01:26:38,480
forgive my french but

2188
01:26:43,830 --> 01:26:41,679
this deja vu impression of you know

2189
01:26:45,350 --> 01:26:43,840
those were things that the air force had

2190
01:26:47,270 --> 01:26:45,360
said in the 50s

2191
01:26:48,629 --> 01:26:47,280
you know yeah there are things we don't

2192
01:26:50,310 --> 01:26:48,639
understand them

2193
01:26:52,070 --> 01:26:50,320
people should report them we don't know

2194
01:26:54,629 --> 01:26:52,080
what they are i mean that's

2195
01:26:55,990 --> 01:26:54,639
essentially what the you know this navy

2196
01:26:59,189 --> 01:26:56,000
report is saying

2197
01:27:01,750 --> 01:26:59,199
well come on i mean you know what have

2198
01:27:03,510 --> 01:27:01,760
we done the last 50 years

2199
01:27:05,910 --> 01:27:03,520
so i mean those are questions the

2200
01:27:08,149 --> 01:27:05,920
scientific community should be asking

2201
01:27:09,189 --> 01:27:08,159
now my understanding is that the report

2202
01:27:11,910 --> 01:27:09,199
was changed

2203
01:27:12,550 --> 01:27:11,920
i had a chance to talk to some of the

2204
01:27:17,430 --> 01:27:12,560
people

2205
01:27:21,350 --> 01:27:17,440
who were at the origin of that

2206
01:27:24,229 --> 01:27:21,360
report and the report has changed over

2207
01:27:26,790 --> 01:27:24,239
over the last few months from a public

2208
01:27:29,510 --> 01:27:26,800
report to a classified report so

2209
01:27:30,550 --> 01:27:29,520
those of the audience who have the right

2210
01:27:32,629 --> 01:27:30,560
access

2211
01:27:33,910 --> 01:27:32,639
may have a chance to look at their the

2212
01:27:37,270 --> 01:27:33,920
actual report

2213
01:27:39,830 --> 01:27:37,280
what the public is being given now is

2214
01:27:41,669 --> 01:27:39,840
just a very superficial overall

2215
01:27:44,310 --> 01:27:41,679
statement which is

2216
01:27:45,510 --> 01:27:44,320
you know which is i think is true i mean

2217
01:27:47,270 --> 01:27:45,520
it's sincere

2218
01:27:48,550 --> 01:27:47,280
that there is something flying around

2219
01:27:51,910 --> 01:27:48,560
that we don't

2220
01:27:56,629 --> 01:27:51,920
understand but that's what the air force

2221
01:27:59,750 --> 01:27:56,639
the u.s air force was saying in 1947.

2222
01:28:00,629 --> 01:27:59,760
so come on i mean what happened i mean

2223
01:28:02,629 --> 01:28:00,639
what happened to

2224
01:28:03,669 --> 01:28:02,639
billions of dollars of our tax money i

2225
01:28:06,390 --> 01:28:03,679
mean what

2226
01:28:07,030 --> 01:28:06,400
what are these guys doing and and you

2227
01:28:10,470 --> 01:28:07,040
have to

2228
01:28:11,750 --> 01:28:10,480
worry because the i mean this is what

2229
01:28:13,990 --> 01:28:11,760
happens when you don't

2230
01:28:15,669 --> 01:28:14,000
involve you know scientists in the

2231
01:28:16,550 --> 01:28:15,679
scientific community and study these

2232
01:28:20,550 --> 01:28:16,560
things openly

2233
01:28:23,189 --> 01:28:20,560
and here we are you know and here i find

2234
01:28:25,910 --> 01:28:23,199
myself even you know how waiting you

2235
01:28:27,830 --> 01:28:25,920
know in anticipation to see this report

2236
01:28:29,110 --> 01:28:27,840
as if we're going to get any kind of

2237
01:28:31,590 --> 01:28:29,120
information that's

2238
01:28:32,470 --> 01:28:31,600
trustworthy or meaningful um we've heard

2239
01:28:34,709 --> 01:28:32,480
the the

2240
01:28:35,669 --> 01:28:34,719
tired old mantra of it was a weather

2241
01:28:37,910 --> 01:28:35,679
balloon

2242
01:28:39,510 --> 01:28:37,920
over and over and over again you know

2243
01:28:42,229 --> 01:28:39,520
there was a weather balloon

2244
01:28:43,430 --> 01:28:42,239
in trinity seriously you need a truck to

2245
01:28:45,669 --> 01:28:43,440
carry a weather balloon

2246
01:28:47,669 --> 01:28:45,679
equipment away why wouldn't you just tie

2247
01:28:50,070 --> 01:28:47,679
another weather a balloon to it

2248
01:28:51,990 --> 01:28:50,080
hoist it up with a few cables and then

2249
01:28:53,189 --> 01:28:52,000
let it float while you drive it away

2250
01:28:55,030 --> 01:28:53,199
with a jeep

2251
01:28:56,950 --> 01:28:55,040
you can easily do that if it's a weather

2252
01:28:58,310 --> 01:28:56,960
balloon i mean it's it's silly

2253
01:29:00,550 --> 01:28:58,320
it's a weather balloon that needs a

2254
01:29:03,030 --> 01:29:00,560
crane to lift give me a break

2255
01:29:04,390 --> 01:29:03,040
that's dumb and we're not we're not all

2256
01:29:06,310 --> 01:29:04,400
that stupid

2257
01:29:08,310 --> 01:29:06,320
and and give people a little more credit

2258
01:29:09,910 --> 01:29:08,320
than that you know skeptics are going to

2259
01:29:11,430 --> 01:29:09,920
glom onto whatever they want they can

2260
01:29:13,590 --> 01:29:11,440
glom onto because

2261
01:29:14,790 --> 01:29:13,600
a sufficiently motivated skeptic can

2262
01:29:16,229 --> 01:29:14,800
deny anything

2263
01:29:19,030 --> 01:29:16,239
and there's flat earthers out there

2264
01:29:22,629 --> 01:29:19,040
let's just throw that there

2265
01:29:24,550 --> 01:29:22,639
so so now you know in the whole roswell

2266
01:29:26,470 --> 01:29:24,560
situation too those we were supposed to

2267
01:29:28,070 --> 01:29:26,480
know there have been like three

2268
01:29:29,430 --> 01:29:28,080
different stories that the air force

2269
01:29:31,430 --> 01:29:29,440
told about roswell

2270
01:29:33,030 --> 01:29:31,440
and now you know the one is now it's

2271
01:29:34,629 --> 01:29:33,040
project mogul and it was weather boom

2272
01:29:37,110 --> 01:29:34,639
with a ra with a little

2273
01:29:38,149 --> 01:29:37,120
little also wood aluminum foil radar

2274
01:29:40,310 --> 01:29:38,159
reflectors

2275
01:29:41,510 --> 01:29:40,320
that left a three-quarter mile long

2276
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:41,520
debris field that was

2277
01:29:46,709 --> 01:29:44,639
200 feet wide really

2278
01:29:48,229 --> 01:29:46,719
um what kind of how many of these things

2279
01:29:50,149 --> 01:29:48,239
did you launch and how did they all

2280
01:29:52,470 --> 01:29:50,159
crash in the same place or how big was

2281
01:29:55,669 --> 01:29:52,480
this radar reflector um

2282
01:29:56,070 --> 01:29:55,679
you have to use a forest of balsa trees

2283
01:29:58,709 --> 01:29:56,080
to

2284
01:29:59,110 --> 01:29:58,719
build something this big it's ridiculous

2285
01:30:01,910 --> 01:29:59,120
um

2286
01:30:03,110 --> 01:30:01,920
and it's in it's it's silly that you

2287
01:30:05,590 --> 01:30:03,120
know we've

2288
01:30:08,070 --> 01:30:05,600
somehow accepted these these these

2289
01:30:10,550 --> 01:30:08,080
stories and they really are just stories

2290
01:30:11,990 --> 01:30:10,560
um you know who's who's being ridiculous

2291
01:30:13,590 --> 01:30:12,000
at these this point

2292
01:30:15,110 --> 01:30:13,600
it's it's our government who's been

2293
01:30:17,350 --> 01:30:15,120
lying to us who feels the need to

2294
01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:17,360
classify these things that

2295
01:30:22,550 --> 01:30:21,120
um and can't possibly tell us what's

2296
01:30:25,590 --> 01:30:22,560
going on yet these things

2297
01:30:29,030 --> 01:30:25,600
do yet these things do pose an

2298
01:30:30,870 --> 01:30:29,040
air traffic hazard um not only military

2299
01:30:31,510 --> 01:30:30,880
pilots see them but commercial pilots

2300
01:30:35,830 --> 01:30:31,520
see them

2301
01:30:37,669 --> 01:30:35,840
passengers in the plane

2302
01:30:39,669 --> 01:30:37,679
um you've got planes full of 200

2303
01:30:41,510 --> 01:30:39,679
passengers and one of these things from

2304
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:41,520
screaming past the windscreen of a

2305
01:30:44,950 --> 01:30:42,960
commercial jet in the past

2306
01:30:47,430 --> 01:30:44,960
and what are the pilots gonna do

2307
01:30:49,030 --> 01:30:47,440
eventually somebody's gonna panic

2308
01:30:50,550 --> 01:30:49,040
and i can't fault them because they've

2309
01:30:51,110 --> 01:30:50,560
not been trained to look for these

2310
01:30:53,030 --> 01:30:51,120
things

2311
01:30:54,950 --> 01:30:53,040
they've not been taught what they are

2312
01:30:56,310 --> 01:30:54,960
they've not been taught to not worry

2313
01:30:59,350 --> 01:30:56,320
about them

2314
01:31:00,790 --> 01:30:59,360
these things don't you know obey our air

2315
01:31:03,510 --> 01:31:00,800
traffic rules

2316
01:31:05,110 --> 01:31:03,520
um they're not atmospheric phenomena i'm

2317
01:31:06,470 --> 01:31:05,120
sorry you don't have atmospheric

2318
01:31:10,390 --> 01:31:06,480
phenomena whipping along

2319
01:31:14,470 --> 01:31:10,400
it at 100 g accelerations

2320
01:31:15,669 --> 01:31:14,480
um 60 times the speed of sound that's

2321
01:31:18,790 --> 01:31:15,679
that's dumb

2322
01:31:21,510 --> 01:31:18,800
the the whole atmospheric phenomena is

2323
01:31:24,950 --> 01:31:21,520
basically a retooling of the swamp gas

2324
01:31:27,030 --> 01:31:24,960
the old tired old saw gas mantra so

2325
01:31:28,790 --> 01:31:27,040
i mean so we're getting hearing that

2326
01:31:32,070 --> 01:31:28,800
from more skeptics i think the

2327
01:31:33,990 --> 01:31:32,080
nasa administrator talked yesterday or

2328
01:31:35,270 --> 01:31:34,000
the other day about

2329
01:31:37,189 --> 01:31:35,280
there's a possibility these are

2330
01:31:38,550 --> 01:31:37,199
atmospheric phenomena well

2331
01:31:40,470 --> 01:31:38,560
some of them may be atmospheric

2332
01:31:41,270 --> 01:31:40,480
phenomena but not the ones we should be

2333
01:31:43,510 --> 01:31:41,280
worried about

2334
01:31:45,350 --> 01:31:43,520
and i think that's really a problem here

2335
01:31:45,669 --> 01:31:45,360
well even if they are you know they are

2336
01:31:56,229 --> 01:31:45,679
a

2337
01:31:59,590 --> 01:31:56,239
energy

2338
01:32:01,030 --> 01:31:59,600
should just you know fly around your

2339
01:32:04,229 --> 01:32:01,040
bedroom i mean

2340
01:32:06,870 --> 01:32:04,239
there is no physical theory for that

2341
01:32:08,070 --> 01:32:06,880
that is a great example because when i

2342
01:32:10,629 --> 01:32:08,080
gave my talk

2343
01:32:12,149 --> 01:32:10,639
and uap character fight characteristics

2344
01:32:15,510 --> 01:32:12,159
at that meeting in

2345
01:32:16,310 --> 01:32:15,520
germany there was another speaker who

2346
01:32:18,390 --> 01:32:16,320
spoke about

2347
01:32:20,390 --> 01:32:18,400
ball lightning he was talking about

2348
01:32:22,470 --> 01:32:20,400
theoretical work on ball lightning

2349
01:32:24,470 --> 01:32:22,480
and he went into some detail complaining

2350
01:32:26,950 --> 01:32:24,480
about the fact that he can't publish

2351
01:32:27,510 --> 01:32:26,960
any of his work on ball lightning

2352
01:32:29,750 --> 01:32:27,520
because

2353
01:32:30,709 --> 01:32:29,760
ball lightning is a taboo topic in

2354
01:32:33,990 --> 01:32:30,719
physics

2355
01:32:36,470 --> 01:32:34,000
so so so it's

2356
01:32:39,350 --> 01:32:36,480
it i think it's again ironic that you're

2357
01:32:41,590 --> 01:32:39,360
going to have that a lot of scientists

2358
01:32:42,629 --> 01:32:41,600
basically when encountering the ufo

2359
01:32:45,110 --> 01:32:42,639
phenomena

2360
01:32:46,709 --> 01:32:45,120
because that's so taboo oh we'll just

2361
01:32:48,390 --> 01:32:46,719
say it's ball lightning but ball

2362
01:32:50,629 --> 01:32:48,400
lightning is actually another taboo

2363
01:32:53,510 --> 01:32:50,639
topic that is not well understood

2364
01:32:54,070 --> 01:32:53,520
generally so um you're just trading one

2365
01:32:57,510 --> 01:32:54,080
unknown

2366
01:32:58,950 --> 01:32:57,520
anywhere this isn't

2367
01:33:00,709 --> 01:32:58,960
this isn't how science is supposed to

2368
01:33:02,629 --> 01:33:00,719
work well what

2369
01:33:04,790 --> 01:33:02,639
what those kids saw suddenly was not

2370
01:33:06,709 --> 01:33:04,800
ball lightning yeah

2371
01:33:08,390 --> 01:33:06,719
you don't need a crane it's not a

2372
01:33:10,229 --> 01:33:08,400
weather balloon either so

2373
01:33:11,510 --> 01:33:10,239
now you have you have some big questions

2374
01:33:16,070 --> 01:33:11,520
here

2375
01:33:17,510 --> 01:33:16,080
this can go to both of you

2376
01:33:19,350 --> 01:33:17,520
this person wants to know if there's any

2377
01:33:19,990 --> 01:33:19,360
compelling data or video that you've

2378
01:33:24,310 --> 01:33:20,000
seen that

2379
01:33:30,629 --> 01:33:27,350
well if there was and

2380
01:33:33,270 --> 01:33:30,639
i would had seen it when i had

2381
01:33:34,310 --> 01:33:33,280
security clearance i still wouldn't be

2382
01:33:37,750 --> 01:33:34,320
able to

2383
01:33:41,990 --> 01:33:37,760
talk about it um

2384
01:33:45,510 --> 01:33:42,000
the i've certainly heard

2385
01:33:48,629 --> 01:33:45,520
you know about cases like that

2386
01:33:51,270 --> 01:33:48,639
but the the larger point

2387
01:33:52,470 --> 01:33:51,280
is still true that the skeptics are

2388
01:33:55,110 --> 01:33:52,480
making

2389
01:33:56,310 --> 01:33:55,120
i mean there are there are well-informed

2390
01:33:59,350 --> 01:33:56,320
skeptics that

2391
01:34:00,470 --> 01:33:59,360
who that we need in this discussion is

2392
01:34:04,070 --> 01:34:00,480
mick west one of them

2393
01:34:07,270 --> 01:34:04,080
a well-informed skeptic mcquest

2394
01:34:10,070 --> 01:34:07,280
um i well i could

2395
01:34:12,390 --> 01:34:10,080
certainly some of the some of the panel

2396
01:34:15,350 --> 01:34:12,400
that professor stuart gathered that

2397
01:34:17,350 --> 01:34:15,360
under you know the rockefeller the

2398
01:34:21,990 --> 01:34:17,360
foundation support uh

2399
01:34:24,390 --> 01:34:22,000
were came away interested but still

2400
01:34:27,110 --> 01:34:24,400
skeptical because they said you haven't

2401
01:34:29,669 --> 01:34:27,120
given me anything i can take to my lab

2402
01:34:32,229 --> 01:34:29,679
you know and that's that's a valid okay

2403
01:34:33,990 --> 01:34:32,239
but they spent a week

2404
01:34:35,350 --> 01:34:34,000
listening to us make a number of

2405
01:34:37,350 --> 01:34:35,360
presentations

2406
01:34:39,750 --> 01:34:37,360
about you know the different aspects of

2407
01:34:41,030 --> 01:34:39,760
the of the problem and the statistics

2408
01:34:43,350 --> 01:34:41,040
and everything else

2409
01:34:44,550 --> 01:34:43,360
uh with people in the room from the us

2410
01:34:47,750 --> 01:34:44,560
from france

2411
01:34:49,350 --> 01:34:47,760
and elsewhere so and this was funded by

2412
01:34:52,870 --> 01:34:49,360
the rockefeller foundation

2413
01:34:55,750 --> 01:34:52,880
it's been published and uh that's

2414
01:34:57,669 --> 01:34:55,760
you know what i would call the skeptical

2415
01:34:58,550 --> 01:34:57,679
viewpoint there are people who've argued

2416
01:35:01,350 --> 01:34:58,560
with me

2417
01:35:03,430 --> 01:35:01,360
and have taught me some things that

2418
01:35:04,709 --> 01:35:03,440
where i had to recognize they were right

2419
01:35:06,709 --> 01:35:04,719
and i was wrong

2420
01:35:07,990 --> 01:35:06,719
about certain cases i mean that's how we

2421
01:35:12,229 --> 01:35:08,000
learn okay

2422
01:35:16,709 --> 01:35:12,239
but the um the the the larger point

2423
01:35:19,830 --> 01:35:16,719
is why don't we have a lot of pictures

2424
01:35:22,790 --> 01:35:19,840
and in some cases

2425
01:35:24,550 --> 01:35:22,800
the witnesses say you know i watched

2426
01:35:27,109 --> 01:35:24,560
this for half an hour

2427
01:35:29,030 --> 01:35:27,119
and it went away and then i realized i

2428
01:35:29,590 --> 01:35:29,040
had my camera on the back seat of the

2429
01:35:31,669 --> 01:35:29,600
car

2430
01:35:32,870 --> 01:35:31,679
and i never thought about you know

2431
01:35:35,750 --> 01:35:32,880
taking it

2432
01:35:37,669 --> 01:35:35,760
uh the other cases people took a picture

2433
01:35:39,470 --> 01:35:37,679
and it was sort of fuzzy

2434
01:35:41,109 --> 01:35:39,480
so you can say well maybe it's an

2435
01:35:44,790 --> 01:35:41,119
interdimensional

2436
01:35:46,629 --> 01:35:44,800
craft and it doesn't really exist in our

2437
01:35:49,189 --> 01:35:46,639
reality all the time

2438
01:35:50,550 --> 01:35:49,199
yeah you can sort of rationalize it but

2439
01:35:53,669 --> 01:35:50,560
it it's a good question

2440
01:35:56,790 --> 01:35:53,679
and you know there are people like

2441
01:35:57,590 --> 01:35:56,800
dr haines dr richard haynes from nasa

2442
01:36:00,709 --> 01:35:57,600
who has

2443
01:36:03,030 --> 01:36:00,719
gathered a number of photographs

2444
01:36:04,310 --> 01:36:03,040
and but the photograph is only a

2445
01:36:06,390 --> 01:36:04,320
photograph i mean

2446
01:36:07,830 --> 01:36:06,400
you can always argue that there was some

2447
01:36:11,030 --> 01:36:07,840
artifact

2448
01:36:13,430 --> 01:36:11,040
you know so it's not

2449
01:36:15,350 --> 01:36:13,440
that that's true we don't we don't have

2450
01:36:18,550 --> 01:36:15,360
photographic evidence that's

2451
01:36:22,790 --> 01:36:20,709
good to the point of being convincing to

2452
01:36:23,910 --> 01:36:22,800
a jury of your peers or you know you're

2453
01:36:25,750 --> 01:36:23,920
watching this channel because you're

2454
01:36:27,430 --> 01:36:25,760
interested in theoretical physics

2455
01:36:28,950 --> 01:36:27,440
consciousness and the ostensible

2456
01:36:30,390 --> 01:36:28,960
connection between the two what's

2457
01:36:31,109 --> 01:36:30,400
required to follow some of these

2458
01:36:32,870 --> 01:36:31,119
arguments is

2459
01:36:35,109 --> 01:36:32,880
facility with mathematics as well as

2460
01:36:35,750 --> 01:36:35,119
discernment of the underlying physical

2461
01:36:37,189 --> 01:36:35,760
laws and

2462
01:36:39,189 --> 01:36:37,199
you may think that this is beyond you

2463
01:36:41,270 --> 01:36:39,199
but that's false brilliance provides

2464
01:36:42,550 --> 01:36:41,280
pelucid explanations of abstruse

2465
01:36:44,950 --> 01:36:42,560
phenomenon such as

2466
01:36:46,629 --> 01:36:44,960
quantum computing general relativity and

2467
01:36:48,310 --> 01:36:46,639
even group theory when you hear that the

2468
01:36:50,709 --> 01:36:48,320
standard model is based on u1

2469
01:36:52,550 --> 01:36:50,719
cross su 2 cross su 3 that's group

2470
01:36:53,910 --> 01:36:52,560
theory for example now this isn't just

2471
01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:53,920
for neophytes either

2472
01:36:57,430 --> 01:36:56,080
for example i have a degree in math and

2473
01:36:59,189 --> 01:36:57,440
physics and i still found

2474
01:37:01,830 --> 01:36:59,199
some of the intuitions given in these

2475
01:37:03,350 --> 01:37:01,840
lessons to vastly aid my penetration

2476
01:37:05,350 --> 01:37:03,360
into these subjects for example

2477
01:37:08,790 --> 01:37:05,360
electricity and magnetism sign up today

2478
01:37:11,109 --> 01:37:08,800
at brilliant.org slash toe that is t-o-e

2479
01:37:12,629 --> 01:37:11,119
for free you'll also get 20 off the

2480
01:37:14,870 --> 01:37:12,639
annual premium subscription

2481
01:37:16,390 --> 01:37:14,880
try four of the lessons at least don't

2482
01:37:18,310 --> 01:37:16,400
stop before four

2483
01:37:19,910 --> 01:37:18,320
and i think you'll be greatly surprised

2484
01:37:21,830 --> 01:37:19,920
at the ease at which you comprehend

2485
01:37:22,550 --> 01:37:21,840
subjects you previously had trouble

2486
01:37:24,310 --> 01:37:22,560
grocking

2487
01:37:25,990 --> 01:37:24,320
links are in the description one

2488
01:37:27,830 --> 01:37:26,000
question is about peer review

2489
01:37:29,510 --> 01:37:27,840
when can we expect more peer-reviewed

2490
01:37:30,149 --> 01:37:29,520
publications on this phenomenon that's

2491
01:37:33,189 --> 01:37:30,159
by

2492
01:37:36,390 --> 01:37:33,199
harry austin we are working on one

2493
01:37:39,830 --> 01:37:36,400
actually uh that the

2494
01:37:42,470 --> 01:37:39,840
research is done it has been referee

2495
01:37:44,629 --> 01:37:42,480
and we're ready to publish it but we

2496
01:37:47,430 --> 01:37:44,639
don't want to pre-announce

2497
01:37:49,990 --> 01:37:47,440
the the publication so we hope it will

2498
01:37:51,590 --> 01:37:50,000
be out this summer

2499
01:37:53,669 --> 01:37:51,600
kevin what about you what do you think

2500
01:37:54,790 --> 01:37:53,679
when what will it take for more

2501
01:37:57,270 --> 01:37:54,800
peer-reviewed

2502
01:37:59,510 --> 01:37:57,280
studies to be done on this phenomenon

2503
01:38:02,870 --> 01:37:59,520
yeah well we're working on

2504
01:38:05,350 --> 01:38:02,880
papers as well and i'm working on

2505
01:38:08,950 --> 01:38:05,360
collecting our own data at this point

2506
01:38:12,550 --> 01:38:08,960
as well i'm working with the uapx group

2507
01:38:16,229 --> 01:38:12,560
and we have several

2508
01:38:19,510 --> 01:38:16,239
military grade flir infrared cameras

2509
01:38:22,310 --> 01:38:19,520
long wave infrared and we are

2510
01:38:23,430 --> 01:38:22,320
basically at this point just watching

2511
01:38:25,350 --> 01:38:23,440
the skies with them

2512
01:38:27,990 --> 01:38:25,360
um recording data and then going back

2513
01:38:32,229 --> 01:38:28,000
through it to see what we can find

2514
01:38:35,510 --> 01:38:32,239
and we have um especially our engineer

2515
01:38:37,990 --> 01:38:35,520
in washington state has um recorded

2516
01:38:38,629 --> 01:38:38,000
multiple images of objects that we can't

2517
01:38:41,669 --> 01:38:38,639
identify

2518
01:38:45,669 --> 01:38:41,679
so and one of these in fact was

2519
01:38:47,350 --> 01:38:45,679
was following a jet airplane so we have

2520
01:38:48,950 --> 01:38:47,360
and these things are anomalous as well

2521
01:38:52,310 --> 01:38:48,960
they're they're um

2522
01:38:52,870 --> 01:38:52,320
we found that they're very cold compared

2523
01:38:59,430 --> 01:38:52,880
to

2524
01:39:01,750 --> 01:38:59,440
our machines are hot they make they run

2525
01:39:04,470 --> 01:39:01,760
they make heat it's thermodynamics but

2526
01:39:04,950 --> 01:39:04,480
um are they room temperature sorry are

2527
01:39:06,390 --> 01:39:04,960
they

2528
01:39:07,830 --> 01:39:06,400
the temperature of the air around them

2529
01:39:09,270 --> 01:39:07,840
or are they slightly colder or slightly

2530
01:39:12,550 --> 01:39:09,280
warm yeah they're quite cold

2531
01:39:13,669 --> 01:39:12,560
and so they're so the one that i'm

2532
01:39:16,149 --> 01:39:13,679
thinking about right now

2533
01:39:19,669 --> 01:39:16,159
was about 60 degrees below zero

2534
01:39:21,510 --> 01:39:19,679
fahrenheit so negative 60 fahrenheit

2535
01:39:23,830 --> 01:39:21,520
so it's great photographs depends what

2536
01:39:25,430 --> 01:39:23,840
the altitude is and it so it could be

2537
01:39:27,030 --> 01:39:25,440
similar to the ambient temperature at

2538
01:39:29,430 --> 01:39:27,040
that altitude but we don't know what the

2539
01:39:33,189 --> 01:39:29,440
altitude was in that case so we're

2540
01:39:35,830 --> 01:39:33,199
we're going to be taking um more careful

2541
01:39:38,149 --> 01:39:35,840
videos in the near future and hopefully

2542
01:39:40,870 --> 01:39:38,159
be able to do some triangulation

2543
01:39:41,669 --> 01:39:40,880
so kevin speaking of photographs what's

2544
01:39:44,070 --> 01:39:41,679
the picture

2545
01:39:44,870 --> 01:39:44,080
behind you on the wall on your wall

2546
01:39:47,750 --> 01:39:44,880
behind your

2547
01:39:49,030 --> 01:39:47,760
right shoulder oh i think that's just a

2548
01:39:50,950 --> 01:39:49,040
reflection of a light

2549
01:39:53,270 --> 01:39:50,960
fixture in his home that's a light

2550
01:39:55,910 --> 01:39:53,280
reflection okay

2551
01:39:56,790 --> 01:39:55,920
i was hoping you had the ultimate flying

2552
01:40:01,430 --> 01:39:56,800
saucer there

2553
01:40:04,550 --> 01:40:03,030
but it's a that's that's a light

2554
01:40:07,590 --> 01:40:04,560
reflection from

2555
01:40:10,629 --> 01:40:07,600
from these lights up here you know

2556
01:40:13,510 --> 01:40:10,639
that shows how you can be fooled by

2557
01:40:15,430 --> 01:40:13,520
ordinary objects and you're in you're

2558
01:40:18,550 --> 01:40:15,440
and you're absolutely right i was very

2559
01:40:21,189 --> 01:40:18,560
negative about skeptics earlier and

2560
01:40:22,550 --> 01:40:21,199
and what i really should have clarified

2561
01:40:25,109 --> 01:40:22,560
is that i was

2562
01:40:27,750 --> 01:40:25,119
you know talking about extraordinary

2563
01:40:29,510 --> 01:40:27,760
skepticism extreme skepticism

2564
01:40:31,270 --> 01:40:29,520
i mean we need a healthy amount of

2565
01:40:33,669 --> 01:40:31,280
skepticism of course

2566
01:40:35,270 --> 01:40:33,679
many the scientists now there's 600

2567
01:40:36,550 --> 01:40:35,280
people watching this

2568
01:40:38,790 --> 01:40:36,560
just so you know jacques i thought it

2569
01:40:40,950 --> 01:40:38,800
would only be 200 there's 600 right now

2570
01:40:42,310 --> 01:40:40,960
wow and plenty of the audience of this

2571
01:40:44,070 --> 01:40:42,320
channel they're physicists and

2572
01:40:44,709 --> 01:40:44,080
mathematicians they're extremely bright

2573
01:40:46,950 --> 01:40:44,719
but

2574
01:40:47,830 --> 01:40:46,960
also at the same time i don't know why i

2575
01:40:49,109 --> 01:40:47,840
say but

2576
01:40:51,350 --> 01:40:49,119
and also at the same time they're

2577
01:40:53,669 --> 01:40:51,360
extremely open otherwise they wouldn't

2578
01:40:57,590 --> 01:40:53,679
be watching this

2579
01:40:58,229 --> 01:40:57,600
well you know i think that all that is

2580
01:41:02,390 --> 01:40:58,239
needed

2581
01:41:03,990 --> 01:41:02,400
is for science to be given permission to

2582
01:41:06,550 --> 01:41:04,000
look at this

2583
01:41:07,910 --> 01:41:06,560
i'm not you know i've worked

2584
01:41:09,990 --> 01:41:07,920
occasionally as you know on

2585
01:41:11,510 --> 01:41:10,000
classified projects and they were

2586
01:41:15,590 --> 01:41:11,520
legitimate

2587
01:41:17,990 --> 01:41:15,600
and there there is i i'm not

2588
01:41:20,229 --> 01:41:18,000
you know saying that everything should

2589
01:41:22,470 --> 01:41:20,239
have been open right away

2590
01:41:25,350 --> 01:41:22,480
in the conditions of the cold war for

2591
01:41:27,270 --> 01:41:25,360
example in 1945

2592
01:41:29,669 --> 01:41:27,280
nobody knew what that thing was it was

2593
01:41:34,070 --> 01:41:29,679
taken away and it was classified

2594
01:41:36,149 --> 01:41:34,080
and remember one of the canadian

2595
01:41:37,910 --> 01:41:36,159
scientists who looked at all this was

2596
01:41:41,510 --> 01:41:37,920
told

2597
01:41:45,510 --> 01:41:41,520
by american authorities that the subject

2598
01:41:48,709 --> 01:41:45,520
was classified higher than the atom bomb

2599
01:41:49,750 --> 01:41:48,719
and was legitimately classified higher

2600
01:41:52,550 --> 01:41:49,760
than the atom bomb

2601
01:41:53,109 --> 01:41:52,560
and i i don't really have a problem with

2602
01:41:58,390 --> 01:41:53,119
it

2603
01:42:00,550 --> 01:41:58,400
there was the expectation that we could

2604
01:42:03,750 --> 01:42:00,560
quickly maybe master the

2605
01:42:07,270 --> 01:42:03,760
technology before the russians

2606
01:42:07,990 --> 01:42:07,280
you know there were alerts all the time

2607
01:42:11,030 --> 01:42:08,000
about

2608
01:42:12,149 --> 01:42:11,040
the possibility of nuclear war with uh

2609
01:42:15,350 --> 01:42:12,159
with russia

2610
01:42:17,510 --> 01:42:15,360
you know as late as the the cuban crisis

2611
01:42:20,550 --> 01:42:17,520
certainly we came very

2612
01:42:23,590 --> 01:42:20,560
very very very close to it so

2613
01:42:26,950 --> 01:42:23,600
um there is legitimacy

2614
01:42:29,669 --> 01:42:26,960
in giving it to uh

2615
01:42:30,629 --> 01:42:29,679
you know under classification to labs

2616
01:42:32,870 --> 01:42:30,639
that could

2617
01:42:34,470 --> 01:42:32,880
and i can imagine the things that our

2618
01:42:38,310 --> 01:42:34,480
witnesses described

2619
01:42:42,629 --> 01:42:38,320
coming out of this 1945 case being

2620
01:42:45,669 --> 01:42:42,639
separated you know the fiber given to uh

2621
01:42:48,149 --> 01:42:45,679
you know a glass lab this

2622
01:42:49,109 --> 01:42:48,159
part of a craft description given to

2623
01:42:51,350 --> 01:42:49,119
battelle

2624
01:42:53,350 --> 01:42:51,360
especially the you know the pliable

2625
01:42:56,790 --> 01:42:53,360
material the memory metal

2626
01:42:59,350 --> 01:42:56,800
that we know battelle was working on and

2627
01:43:00,310 --> 01:42:59,360
has been patented since then so i mean

2628
01:43:03,669 --> 01:43:00,320
we we can

2629
01:43:04,310 --> 01:43:03,679
look at the track uh some of it went to

2630
01:43:08,629 --> 01:43:04,320
ibm

2631
01:43:11,669 --> 01:43:08,639
told me about some of the things

2632
01:43:15,030 --> 01:43:11,679
they had looked at but this is not

2633
01:43:15,590 --> 01:43:15,040
you know it's difficult to do science at

2634
01:43:18,149 --> 01:43:15,600
that

2635
01:43:20,470 --> 01:43:18,159
high level of classification because you

2636
01:43:23,350 --> 01:43:20,480
have to parcel out the material

2637
01:43:24,870 --> 01:43:23,360
and in science i mean the whole point is

2638
01:43:26,830 --> 01:43:24,880
you get people to talk

2639
01:43:28,149 --> 01:43:26,840
together you did you need an

2640
01:43:30,870 --> 01:43:28,159
interdisciplinary

2641
01:43:32,310 --> 01:43:30,880
if there are if there is biological

2642
01:43:33,910 --> 01:43:32,320
material there

2643
01:43:35,910 --> 01:43:33,920
you know the physicists should know

2644
01:43:37,109 --> 01:43:35,920
about it i mean when you design a

2645
01:43:39,830 --> 01:43:37,119
spacecraft

2646
01:43:40,950 --> 01:43:39,840
for people you design it differently

2647
01:43:43,590 --> 01:43:40,960
than if you did

2648
01:43:45,189 --> 01:43:43,600
you know uh if nobody is going if there

2649
01:43:46,709 --> 01:43:45,199
isn't going to be a pilot

2650
01:43:48,229 --> 01:43:46,719
i mean that's the whole point of the

2651
01:43:50,149 --> 01:43:48,239
discussion but

2652
01:43:52,149 --> 01:43:50,159
about what we should do in space you

2653
01:43:53,270 --> 01:43:52,159
know today or we should what we should

2654
01:43:55,030 --> 01:43:53,280
do on the moon

2655
01:43:56,870 --> 01:43:55,040
if we send people it's going to cost a

2656
01:43:59,350 --> 01:43:56,880
lot more if we send

2657
01:44:00,229 --> 01:43:59,360
ai you know there are other things we

2658
01:44:02,709 --> 01:44:00,239
can do

2659
01:44:04,229 --> 01:44:02,719
those should be part of the discussion

2660
01:44:07,270 --> 01:44:04,239
and today i mean

2661
01:44:09,430 --> 01:44:07,280
the russians to their credit have been

2662
01:44:11,109 --> 01:44:09,440
i wouldn't say they've been open but

2663
01:44:13,590 --> 01:44:11,119
there have been times

2664
01:44:14,229 --> 01:44:13,600
when they were a lot more open than we

2665
01:44:16,870 --> 01:44:14,239
were

2666
01:44:18,629 --> 01:44:16,880
they've had three different task forces

2667
01:44:21,510 --> 01:44:18,639
working on this from different

2668
01:44:22,310 --> 01:44:21,520
sides including experts on plasma by the

2669
01:44:25,910 --> 01:44:22,320
way

2670
01:44:29,030 --> 01:44:25,920
looking at the plasma aspects that

2671
01:44:29,510 --> 01:44:29,040
that are very very interesting and they

2672
01:44:33,510 --> 01:44:29,520
were

2673
01:44:36,790 --> 01:44:35,350
maybe it's time to set the

2674
01:44:38,310 --> 01:44:36,800
classification to review the

2675
01:44:41,430 --> 01:44:38,320
classification

2676
01:44:44,070 --> 01:44:41,440
and and look at it now why is it that

2677
01:44:47,590 --> 01:44:44,080
the air force never knew about this case

2678
01:44:51,189 --> 01:44:47,600
well uh there are three different paths

2679
01:44:53,510 --> 01:44:51,199
to false secrets in the us there is only

2680
01:44:57,109 --> 01:44:53,520
one that goes straight to the president

2681
01:44:59,109 --> 01:44:57,119
through the normal administration levels

2682
01:45:00,629 --> 01:44:59,119
okay it certainly would involve the

2683
01:45:02,629 --> 01:45:00,639
pentagon and it would go

2684
01:45:04,470 --> 01:45:02,639
straight to the president it would be on

2685
01:45:07,669 --> 01:45:04,480
the desk of the president

2686
01:45:10,390 --> 01:45:07,679
eventually if it's deemed that he

2687
01:45:11,430 --> 01:45:10,400
should be aware that's the the the

2688
01:45:15,910 --> 01:45:11,440
process that

2689
01:45:18,709 --> 01:45:15,920
everybody's knows about

2690
01:45:20,149 --> 01:45:18,719
including secret top secret sap and

2691
01:45:22,229 --> 01:45:20,159
everything else

2692
01:45:23,830 --> 01:45:22,239
there are two other two other systems

2693
01:45:26,870 --> 01:45:23,840
there is a system that

2694
01:45:27,750 --> 01:45:26,880
doesn't go to the president unless there

2695
01:45:30,550 --> 01:45:27,760
is a need to

2696
01:45:32,950 --> 01:45:30,560
to tell the president about it which has

2697
01:45:36,470 --> 01:45:32,960
to do with diplomatic relations

2698
01:45:39,430 --> 01:45:36,480
has to do with know other countries

2699
01:45:41,189 --> 01:45:39,440
diplomacy and that level of secrets goes

2700
01:45:43,430 --> 01:45:41,199
to the state department

2701
01:45:44,709 --> 01:45:43,440
and agencies related to the state

2702
01:45:46,870 --> 01:45:44,719
department

2703
01:45:49,350 --> 01:45:46,880
that's there is a high level of

2704
01:45:52,550 --> 01:45:49,360
classification obviously at that level

2705
01:45:55,750 --> 01:45:52,560
that it's not a direct path to

2706
01:45:56,629 --> 01:45:55,760
the things that people with a top secret

2707
01:45:59,510 --> 01:45:56,639
clearance

2708
01:46:01,270 --> 01:45:59,520
would necessarily have access you know

2709
01:46:03,750 --> 01:46:01,280
and then there is another level which is

2710
01:46:05,990 --> 01:46:03,760
the atomic secrets

2711
01:46:07,750 --> 01:46:06,000
our belief after reviewing all this and

2712
01:46:10,870 --> 01:46:07,760
talking to people

2713
01:46:14,870 --> 01:46:10,880
and reinterviewing the witnesses about

2714
01:46:18,550 --> 01:46:14,880
what their experience was in later years

2715
01:46:19,350 --> 01:46:18,560
was that this was remember this was on

2716
01:46:23,030 --> 01:46:19,360
the

2717
01:46:25,590 --> 01:46:23,040
controlled

2718
01:46:27,270 --> 01:46:25,600
by project manhattan it wouldn't have

2719
01:46:28,310 --> 01:46:27,280
gone to the air force there was no air

2720
01:46:31,430 --> 01:46:28,320
force

2721
01:46:33,189 --> 01:46:31,440
attached to the army

2722
01:46:35,350 --> 01:46:33,199
the army was working for project

2723
01:46:36,950 --> 01:46:35,360
manhattan under the currencies of

2724
01:46:40,310 --> 01:46:36,960
project manhattan

2725
01:46:43,590 --> 01:46:40,320
it would have gone

2726
01:46:45,750 --> 01:46:43,600
presumably to los alamos

2727
01:46:47,350 --> 01:46:45,760
then it would have been classified under

2728
01:46:49,750 --> 01:46:47,360
the p clearances

2729
01:46:50,790 --> 01:46:49,760
or the q clearances or there are

2730
01:46:53,430 --> 01:46:50,800
clearances

2731
01:46:54,950 --> 01:46:53,440
that go to the department of energy they

2732
01:46:57,270 --> 01:46:54,960
don't go to the air force

2733
01:46:59,030 --> 01:46:57,280
they don't go to the navy they don't go

2734
01:47:00,390 --> 01:46:59,040
to the president

2735
01:47:02,470 --> 01:47:00,400
and that's what people have never

2736
01:47:04,629 --> 01:47:02,480
understood that's why

2737
01:47:05,750 --> 01:47:04,639
you've never heard about it that's why

2738
01:47:09,350 --> 01:47:05,760
we call it the

2739
01:47:11,750 --> 01:47:09,360
you know the best kept secret the the

2740
01:47:13,590 --> 01:47:11,760
the witnesses never spoke about it for

2741
01:47:15,430 --> 01:47:13,600
75 years

2742
01:47:17,030 --> 01:47:15,440
and the government is not going to talk

2743
01:47:20,070 --> 01:47:17,040
about it

2744
01:47:22,550 --> 01:47:20,080
now we know that because remy baca

2745
01:47:23,910 --> 01:47:22,560
remy baka had a political role in the

2746
01:47:27,430 --> 01:47:23,920
state of washington

2747
01:47:30,550 --> 01:47:27,440
at what time and he got dixie lee ray

2748
01:47:32,950 --> 01:47:30,560
elected you know as part of her

2749
01:47:33,990 --> 01:47:32,960
political team at one time as governor

2750
01:47:35,910 --> 01:47:34,000
of washington

2751
01:47:37,510 --> 01:47:35,920
dixie lee ray was the secretary of

2752
01:47:40,950 --> 01:47:37,520
energy at one time

2753
01:47:45,270 --> 01:47:40,960
and she showed him the file

2754
01:47:48,470 --> 01:47:45,280
on his sighting she had the fire

2755
01:47:49,430 --> 01:47:48,480
and he flew with her to a convention

2756
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:49,440
somewhere

2757
01:47:53,750 --> 01:47:52,800
and she knew about his experience as a

2758
01:47:57,189 --> 01:47:53,760
kid

2759
01:48:00,229 --> 01:47:57,199
and and the fact that um

2760
01:48:02,830 --> 01:48:00,239
that he had seen this and uh this is

2761
01:48:06,550 --> 01:48:02,840
somebody telling me not to talk about

2762
01:48:11,590 --> 01:48:09,270
the notification sound so this this

2763
01:48:14,390 --> 01:48:11,600
conversation is tell me

2764
01:48:15,270 --> 01:48:14,400
oh scare me we're live streaming though

2765
01:48:17,990 --> 01:48:15,280
so it doesn't matter

2766
01:48:19,270 --> 01:48:18,000
this is going to go out there no but the

2767
01:48:22,790 --> 01:48:19,280
um

2768
01:48:26,070 --> 01:48:22,800
uh you know she showed him the fight

2769
01:48:28,709 --> 01:48:26,080
about what what he had seen and

2770
01:48:29,350 --> 01:48:28,719
what what had been recovered she didn't

2771
01:48:32,390 --> 01:48:29,360
let him

2772
01:48:34,310 --> 01:48:32,400
take take notes from it but the you know

2773
01:48:38,790 --> 01:48:34,320
the file was classified

2774
01:48:42,629 --> 01:48:38,800
within and was classified

2775
01:48:45,990 --> 01:48:42,639
legitimately within the atomic

2776
01:48:50,950 --> 01:48:46,000
secrets and again people were

2777
01:48:55,590 --> 01:48:50,960
told that the ufo problem was classified

2778
01:48:59,510 --> 01:48:58,310
someone here named jacob rumay wants to

2779
01:49:01,350 --> 01:48:59,520
know

2780
01:49:03,750 --> 01:49:01,360
for both of you to have have you and

2781
01:49:06,870 --> 01:49:03,760
have you encountered christopher mellon

2782
01:49:08,550 --> 01:49:06,880
or luis elizondo and if so

2783
01:49:11,510 --> 01:49:08,560
do you have any strong feelings as to

2784
01:49:15,510 --> 01:49:11,520
their legitimacy their sincerity

2785
01:49:18,550 --> 01:49:15,520
or do you sense an agenda um

2786
01:49:21,270 --> 01:49:18,560
i i know uh chris mellon

2787
01:49:22,149 --> 01:49:21,280
quite well uh we've spoken a number of

2788
01:49:25,830 --> 01:49:22,159
times here

2789
01:49:29,109 --> 01:49:25,840
and in in france uh i've had

2790
01:49:31,589 --> 01:49:29,119
dinner with him at my place in paris

2791
01:49:33,589 --> 01:49:31,599
with with we've talked about the sharing

2792
01:49:36,950 --> 01:49:33,599
of information and so on

2793
01:49:40,390 --> 01:49:36,960
um the uh and

2794
01:49:41,430 --> 01:49:40,400
uh i i admire you know the position that

2795
01:49:43,270 --> 01:49:41,440
he has taken

2796
01:49:45,990 --> 01:49:43,280
he certainly was in a position to

2797
01:49:49,189 --> 01:49:46,000
understand how the government

2798
01:49:52,790 --> 01:49:49,199
thinks about at that very high level

2799
01:49:55,109 --> 01:49:52,800
about things like this and his

2800
01:49:57,510 --> 01:49:55,119
obviously has been instrumental in

2801
01:50:00,149 --> 01:49:57,520
bringing out some of the information

2802
01:50:00,709 --> 01:50:00,159
including the nimitz photographs you

2803
01:50:03,510 --> 01:50:00,719
know to

2804
01:50:03,910 --> 01:50:03,520
to us i mean to the public uh i've never

2805
01:50:08,470 --> 01:50:03,920
met

2806
01:50:10,390 --> 01:50:08,480
uh mr elizondo i i admire the

2807
01:50:11,510 --> 01:50:10,400
you know the risk that he has taken with

2808
01:50:14,629 --> 01:50:11,520
his career

2809
01:50:17,270 --> 01:50:14,639
uh i think is intensely um

2810
01:50:18,149 --> 01:50:17,280
you know involved in this and and wants

2811
01:50:22,950 --> 01:50:18,159
to

2812
01:50:24,470 --> 01:50:22,960
an involvement of the scientific

2813
01:50:27,750 --> 01:50:24,480
community i i

2814
01:50:28,629 --> 01:50:27,760
absolutely believe he's sincere and he

2815
01:50:32,709 --> 01:50:28,639
was in the

2816
01:50:34,709 --> 01:50:32,719
places where he was kevin

2817
01:50:35,750 --> 01:50:34,719
yeah i feel the same way i've not i've

2818
01:50:38,629 --> 01:50:35,760
not had the pleasure

2819
01:50:39,189 --> 01:50:38,639
of meeting chris fellain but um but i've

2820
01:50:42,470 --> 01:50:39,199
met

2821
01:50:44,310 --> 01:50:42,480
lou elizondo several times and spent

2822
01:50:46,390 --> 01:50:44,320
a bit of time talking to him about the

2823
01:50:49,430 --> 01:50:46,400
topic and

2824
01:50:52,550 --> 01:50:49,440
yeah he's he is

2825
01:50:53,189 --> 01:50:52,560
sincere and and passionate about this i

2826
01:50:57,350 --> 01:50:53,199
think he

2827
01:50:59,430 --> 01:50:57,360
he feels very strongly about this um

2828
01:51:01,430 --> 01:50:59,440
especially with regard to the pilots um

2829
01:51:02,790 --> 01:51:01,440
we have you know we have pilots who've

2830
01:51:03,430 --> 01:51:02,800
been encountering these things who've

2831
01:51:05,589 --> 01:51:03,440
had

2832
01:51:07,589 --> 01:51:05,599
you know problems encountering these

2833
01:51:09,270 --> 01:51:07,599
things and

2834
01:51:10,629 --> 01:51:09,280
and i think he's really looking out for

2835
01:51:12,629 --> 01:51:10,639
them to

2836
01:51:15,030 --> 01:51:12,639
get this resolved and figured out this

2837
01:51:18,149 --> 01:51:15,040
is really an air safety

2838
01:51:21,430 --> 01:51:18,159
issue in some cases and

2839
01:51:22,629 --> 01:51:21,440
it needs to be understood and so i think

2840
01:51:26,310 --> 01:51:22,639
he's sincere about that

2841
01:51:28,709 --> 01:51:26,320
he's and he is interested in getting the

2842
01:51:31,910 --> 01:51:28,719
scientific community involved

2843
01:51:34,470 --> 01:51:31,920
um he gave a presentation at the um

2844
01:51:36,470 --> 01:51:34,480
scientific coalition for uap studies at

2845
01:51:39,510 --> 01:51:36,480
cu's

2846
01:51:42,229 --> 01:51:39,520
conference two years ago

2847
01:51:44,070 --> 01:51:42,239
and um and i was there for that as well

2848
01:51:51,589 --> 01:51:44,080
so

2849
01:51:53,830 --> 01:51:51,599
and hard to understand this

2850
01:51:55,750 --> 01:51:53,840
jacques have you done an any metallurgic

2851
01:51:58,870 --> 01:51:55,760
analysis of any of the objects

2852
01:52:00,950 --> 01:51:58,880
or materials that you managed to

2853
01:52:03,109 --> 01:52:00,960
capture take and if so are they

2854
01:52:05,270 --> 01:52:03,119
published in anywhere that people can

2855
01:52:09,030 --> 01:52:05,280
what are the results of that

2856
01:52:09,830 --> 01:52:09,040
so we are uh i've over the years people

2857
01:52:13,189 --> 01:52:09,840
have

2858
01:52:15,910 --> 01:52:13,199
given me you know samples

2859
01:52:19,990 --> 01:52:15,920
uh most of it is metallic i've i've

2860
01:52:23,669 --> 01:52:20,000
published a couple of papers about that

2861
01:52:26,709 --> 01:52:23,679
in in in the book i've done a summary

2862
01:52:29,830 --> 01:52:26,719
of what we've done so far

2863
01:52:33,350 --> 01:52:29,840
a number of people have done analyses

2864
01:52:36,629 --> 01:52:33,360
that were you know very uh high-level

2865
01:52:38,870 --> 01:52:36,639
competent analyses so we

2866
01:52:39,750 --> 01:52:38,880
we know what kinds of metals are

2867
01:52:42,149 --> 01:52:39,760
involved

2868
01:52:44,310 --> 01:52:42,159
as you may know professor sturak has

2869
01:52:46,709 --> 01:52:44,320
done isotope analysis of

2870
01:52:48,550 --> 01:52:46,719
a couple of samples especially of the

2871
01:52:51,830 --> 01:52:48,560
brazilian case at

2872
01:52:54,629 --> 01:52:51,840
ubatuba that's still an open question

2873
01:52:54,950 --> 01:52:54,639
we have the samples he's given them to

2874
01:52:58,550 --> 01:52:54,960
me

2875
01:53:00,550 --> 01:52:58,560
and we're going to redo that analysis in

2876
01:53:03,109 --> 01:53:00,560
fact we're doing that now

2877
01:53:04,390 --> 01:53:03,119
we're not quite ready to publish it we

2878
01:53:07,350 --> 01:53:04,400
have one paper

2879
01:53:08,629 --> 01:53:07,360
under review right now about about a

2880
01:53:11,109 --> 01:53:08,639
case where we

2881
01:53:13,430 --> 01:53:11,119
we have material and by the way after we

2882
01:53:15,270 --> 01:53:13,440
publish the paper we're willing to

2883
01:53:16,470 --> 01:53:15,280
share that material we have enough of it

2884
01:53:19,430 --> 01:53:16,480
that we could

2885
01:53:20,229 --> 01:53:19,440
um we could give to other teams to redo

2886
01:53:23,910 --> 01:53:20,239
the

2887
01:53:26,629 --> 01:53:23,920
isotope level because

2888
01:53:27,430 --> 01:53:26,639
that that's a level where people cannot

2889
01:53:30,550 --> 01:53:27,440
cheat

2890
01:53:33,189 --> 01:53:30,560
you know or cannot be fooled by you know

2891
01:53:34,629 --> 01:53:33,199
some people can pick up a strange stone

2892
01:53:36,790 --> 01:53:34,639
you know in their field

2893
01:53:39,510 --> 01:53:36,800
after they've seen something in the sky

2894
01:53:42,149 --> 01:53:39,520
and make the connection

2895
01:53:44,629 --> 01:53:42,159
to test the connection if it's if it's

2896
01:53:47,350 --> 01:53:44,639
something ordinary and we can explain

2897
01:53:48,870 --> 01:53:47,360
why it was in the field then you know

2898
01:53:52,550 --> 01:53:48,880
that's probably not

2899
01:53:54,950 --> 01:53:52,560
a case that we should put a lot of uh

2900
01:53:57,430 --> 01:53:54,960
investment into on the other hand if the

2901
01:53:59,830 --> 01:53:57,440
isotope ratios are abnormal

2902
01:54:00,870 --> 01:53:59,840
then we should go back and look at it

2903
01:54:04,070 --> 01:54:00,880
some more

2904
01:54:05,669 --> 01:54:04,080
so we're doing that yes and regarding

2905
01:54:07,270 --> 01:54:05,679
the brazilian case someone had a

2906
01:54:09,910 --> 01:54:07,280
specific question davey

2907
01:54:11,030 --> 01:54:09,920
pacheco says wow nice man keep fighting

2908
01:54:12,629 --> 01:54:11,040
the good fight and asking the right

2909
01:54:15,910 --> 01:54:12,639
questions we all appreciate that

2910
01:54:16,870 --> 01:54:15,920
if possible please ask jacques what he

2911
01:54:20,830 --> 01:54:16,880
thinks about the

2912
01:54:23,189 --> 01:54:20,840
usually violent encounters in brazilian

2913
01:54:26,629 --> 01:54:23,199
cases um

2914
01:54:28,950 --> 01:54:26,639
the when you know i think

2915
01:54:30,870 --> 01:54:28,960
an anthropologist would say and i'm not

2916
01:54:33,030 --> 01:54:30,880
i'm not an anthropologist

2917
01:54:35,270 --> 01:54:33,040
but you become sort of an amateur

2918
01:54:38,709 --> 01:54:35,280
anthropologist after you speak to

2919
01:54:40,229 --> 01:54:38,719
a few a few thousand witnesses

2920
01:54:41,830 --> 01:54:40,239
you have to look at the cultural

2921
01:54:44,870 --> 01:54:41,840
conditions around

2922
01:54:45,990 --> 01:54:44,880
and some of the conditions in some

2923
01:54:49,750 --> 01:54:46,000
countries

2924
01:54:52,470 --> 01:54:49,760
are more towards a hostile reaction

2925
01:54:53,350 --> 01:54:52,480
to something you don't understand i mean

2926
01:54:56,390 --> 01:54:53,360
certainly in

2927
01:54:58,070 --> 01:54:56,400
in the u.s you know a number of these

2928
01:55:01,189 --> 01:54:58,080
things have been shot at

2929
01:55:03,189 --> 01:55:01,199
um but i mean you know

2930
01:55:05,030 --> 01:55:03,199
you see something really strange on your

2931
01:55:08,470 --> 01:55:05,040
ranch and you have a gun

2932
01:55:11,669 --> 01:55:08,480
uh you know you're that's in

2933
01:55:12,709 --> 01:55:11,679
in a way it's a natural thing to to

2934
01:55:15,030 --> 01:55:12,719
think of

2935
01:55:16,149 --> 01:55:15,040
uh and we're a culture where there are

2936
01:55:19,430 --> 01:55:16,159
lots of guns

2937
01:55:21,990 --> 01:55:19,440
the same thing is in brazil in in france

2938
01:55:22,790 --> 01:55:22,000
the reaction would be more one either

2939
01:55:26,229 --> 01:55:22,800
fear

2940
01:55:29,030 --> 01:55:26,239
or terror and running away uh but not

2941
01:55:29,510 --> 01:55:29,040
engaging it in terms of fighting with it

2942
01:55:32,149 --> 01:55:29,520
so

2943
01:55:34,229 --> 01:55:32,159
i think it's more of a reaction of a

2944
01:55:36,390 --> 01:55:34,239
reflection of the society

2945
01:55:38,229 --> 01:55:36,400
where you are and you know the part of

2946
01:55:40,950 --> 01:55:38,239
the country where you are

2947
01:55:43,189 --> 01:55:40,960
rather than the characteristic of the

2948
01:55:45,510 --> 01:55:43,199
object itself or the

2949
01:55:47,109 --> 01:55:45,520
you know the entity itself but there

2950
01:55:49,669 --> 01:55:47,119
have been cases where

2951
01:55:50,550 --> 01:55:49,679
yeah there were fights and there were

2952
01:55:53,990 --> 01:55:50,560
hostile

2953
01:55:56,709 --> 01:55:54,000
action i've gone through

2954
01:55:57,589 --> 01:55:56,719
the periphery of the amazon with people

2955
01:56:05,030 --> 01:55:57,599
in brazil

2956
01:56:08,149 --> 01:56:05,040
yes i've interviewed people who had been

2957
01:56:11,189 --> 01:56:08,159
not shot but had been hit by a beam

2958
01:56:11,510 --> 01:56:11,199
and had been injured by a beam that was

2959
01:56:14,310 --> 01:56:11,520
not

2960
01:56:16,870 --> 01:56:14,320
there is any kind of laser beam that we

2961
01:56:18,390 --> 01:56:16,880
can produce today

2962
01:56:20,149 --> 01:56:18,400
the beam you mentioned before in one of

2963
01:56:22,390 --> 01:56:20,159
the interviews that it comes out

2964
01:56:23,189 --> 01:56:22,400
rather than completely goes to the end

2965
01:56:26,149 --> 01:56:23,199
it comes out

2966
01:56:26,470 --> 01:56:26,159
and it's burning and it pins you you

2967
01:56:28,790 --> 01:56:26,480
know

2968
01:56:29,990 --> 01:56:28,800
some of these people were sleeping in a

2969
01:56:32,390 --> 01:56:30,000
hammock at night

2970
01:56:33,430 --> 01:56:32,400
in brazil which is what you do i mean

2971
01:56:36,709 --> 01:56:33,440
that's

2972
01:56:39,990 --> 01:56:36,719
uh in in the jungle and so on

2973
01:56:43,270 --> 01:56:40,000
farms many people sleep in hammocks

2974
01:56:44,470 --> 01:56:43,280
and the the the beam would pin them to

2975
01:56:49,189 --> 01:56:44,480
the

2976
01:56:49,589 --> 01:56:49,199
beam had a physicality to it a pressure

2977
01:56:52,629 --> 01:56:49,599
to it

2978
01:56:53,910 --> 01:56:52,639
we have a regular laser wouldn't it we

2979
01:56:57,189 --> 01:56:53,920
have the pictures

2980
01:56:58,629 --> 01:56:57,199
of the the marks of the beam on the skin

2981
01:57:00,870 --> 01:56:58,639
because they see you know they see a

2982
01:57:02,229 --> 01:57:00,880
doctor doctor takes a picture we have

2983
01:57:04,950 --> 01:57:02,239
the pictures

2984
01:57:07,830 --> 01:57:04,960
and i've published them sorry kevin as a

2985
01:57:09,830 --> 01:57:07,840
physicist what do you think of that

2986
01:57:11,109 --> 01:57:09,840
well i i guess as i have another

2987
01:57:15,669 --> 01:57:11,119
question because it

2988
01:57:20,149 --> 01:57:18,149
the particle light beams that have been

2989
01:57:22,390 --> 01:57:20,159
observed by people who have been

2990
01:57:23,270 --> 01:57:22,400
been lifted up into craft or claim to

2991
01:57:25,030 --> 01:57:23,280
have been lifted up

2992
01:57:27,189 --> 01:57:25,040
they say that it's like a particular

2993
01:57:28,870 --> 01:57:27,199
light you know particles of light rather

2994
01:57:31,430 --> 01:57:28,880
than a light beam

2995
01:57:33,109 --> 01:57:31,440
um and makes me wonder if if that's the

2996
01:57:34,709 --> 01:57:33,119
situation i don't know how

2997
01:57:36,310 --> 01:57:34,719
you know a laser isn't going to pin you

2998
01:57:39,830 --> 01:57:36,320
to a hammock so something else is

2999
01:57:42,229 --> 01:57:39,840
clearly going on in that case

3000
01:57:43,669 --> 01:57:42,239
now there may be different frequencies

3001
01:57:46,950 --> 01:57:43,679
and different types of

3002
01:57:49,109 --> 01:57:46,960
of radiation involved i don't know how

3003
01:57:51,510 --> 01:57:49,119
you retract the light beam but

3004
01:57:53,030 --> 01:57:51,520
um yeah that's right that's right it

3005
01:57:54,149 --> 01:57:53,040
doesn't sound like any particles i'm

3006
01:57:57,270 --> 01:57:54,159
aware of so

3007
01:57:58,790 --> 01:57:57,280
you know from as

3008
01:58:00,709 --> 01:57:58,800
you know from a particle physics

3009
01:58:02,870 --> 01:58:00,719
perspective there would

3010
01:58:04,390 --> 01:58:02,880
there's probably something interesting

3011
01:58:06,070 --> 01:58:04,400
here

3012
01:58:07,750 --> 01:58:06,080
if the government has known about these

3013
01:58:08,629 --> 01:58:07,760
phenomena since the 40s

3014
01:58:10,310 --> 01:58:08,639
what's the reason that they're

3015
01:58:11,830 --> 01:58:10,320
disclosing this information right now

3016
01:58:15,430 --> 01:58:11,840
that comes from alan whitehead

3017
01:58:18,629 --> 01:58:15,440
that's a question for someone uh like uh

3018
01:58:20,470 --> 01:58:18,639
mr mellon uh you know uh assistant

3019
01:58:23,910 --> 01:58:20,480
secretary mellon

3020
01:58:28,070 --> 01:58:23,920
who had those discussions

3021
01:58:30,550 --> 01:58:28,080
at government level um

3022
01:58:32,550 --> 01:58:30,560
i think that in cases i know the

3023
01:58:36,070 --> 01:58:32,560
situation in france

3024
01:58:38,870 --> 01:58:36,080
every time we ask that question people

3025
01:58:39,430 --> 01:58:38,880
came back especially from the military

3026
01:58:43,189 --> 01:58:39,440
saying

3027
01:58:46,870 --> 01:58:43,199
uh you know it's not our job to create

3028
01:58:50,070 --> 01:58:46,880
panic or to interfere with people's

3029
01:58:53,830 --> 01:58:50,080
religious beliefs and so on

3030
01:58:57,030 --> 01:58:53,840
we you know that we respect that and

3031
01:58:59,350 --> 01:58:57,040
uh there are too many uh too many things

3032
01:59:02,950 --> 01:58:59,360
going on where we don't have the answer

3033
01:59:06,070 --> 01:59:02,960
and uh if we if we came out with that

3034
01:59:09,030 --> 01:59:06,080
uh people would be afraid

3035
01:59:10,229 --> 01:59:09,040
people might react in terror there might

3036
01:59:13,669 --> 01:59:10,239
be

3037
01:59:16,149 --> 01:59:13,679
controlled

3038
01:59:17,510 --> 01:59:16,159
and and we don't we couldn't provide the

3039
01:59:19,270 --> 01:59:17,520
government with any

3040
01:59:20,550 --> 01:59:19,280
guidance about what to do because we

3041
01:59:23,669 --> 01:59:20,560
don't understand

3042
01:59:26,709 --> 01:59:26,229
which is a fair answer is it majorly to

3043
01:59:30,950 --> 01:59:26,719
prevent

3044
01:59:33,510 --> 01:59:30,960
panic is that the primary reason

3045
01:59:34,629 --> 01:59:33,520
uh that's a reason that's given i i

3046
01:59:36,950 --> 01:59:34,639
think by now

3047
01:59:39,189 --> 01:59:36,960
it may have been true at one time you

3048
01:59:41,910 --> 01:59:39,199
know you've seen all these movies where

3049
01:59:43,109 --> 01:59:41,920
the aliens land and we shoot at them it

3050
01:59:45,189 --> 01:59:43,119
doesn't do any good

3051
01:59:47,350 --> 01:59:45,199
we bring the tanks and it doesn't do any

3052
01:59:48,550 --> 01:59:47,360
good we bring the atomic bomb and it

3053
01:59:51,030 --> 01:59:48,560
doesn't do any good

3054
01:59:51,669 --> 01:59:51,040
and then we've got zilla coming out of

3055
01:59:56,390 --> 01:59:51,679
the ocean

3056
02:00:00,870 --> 01:59:58,950
yes that imagery is there i mean it's

3057
02:00:03,270 --> 02:00:00,880
certainly there in the cinema

3058
02:00:03,910 --> 02:00:03,280
and to some extent it's there in people

3059
02:00:07,109 --> 02:00:03,920
i mean

3060
02:00:09,750 --> 02:00:07,119
uh people have nightmares people have

3061
02:00:11,189 --> 02:00:09,760
now we've outgrown a lot of that i mean

3062
02:00:15,910 --> 02:00:11,199
we

3063
02:00:18,149 --> 02:00:15,920
know say come on i mean

3064
02:00:19,990 --> 02:00:18,159
we've seen worse things and then

3065
02:00:24,470 --> 02:00:20,000
godzilla you know so

3066
02:00:25,990 --> 02:00:24,480
uh and uh even if it was godzilla well

3067
02:00:29,589 --> 02:00:26,000
you know we could probably

3068
02:00:31,589 --> 02:00:29,599
do something about it so it becomes

3069
02:00:33,750 --> 02:00:31,599
i wouldn't say it becomes a joke but

3070
02:00:35,510 --> 02:00:33,760
people are mature enough today

3071
02:00:37,430 --> 02:00:35,520
that it wouldn't have the same effect as

3072
02:00:39,589 --> 02:00:37,440
it would in the 50s

3073
02:00:40,790 --> 02:00:39,599
you know when kids were taught to hide

3074
02:00:42,550 --> 02:00:40,800
under the table

3075
02:00:44,709 --> 02:00:42,560
when the bomb went off and things like

3076
02:00:46,550 --> 02:00:44,719
that where there was a climate of terror

3077
02:00:50,470 --> 02:00:46,560
all the time

3078
02:00:54,550 --> 02:00:52,070
no i think that that makes a lot of

3079
02:00:56,790 --> 02:00:54,560
sense and and i agree with

3080
02:00:58,070 --> 02:00:56,800
shock in that this really is a question

3081
02:01:01,669 --> 02:00:58,080
that's best for somebody

3082
02:01:05,910 --> 02:01:01,679
like um chris mellon my impression

3083
02:01:09,669 --> 02:01:05,920
is that the navy has been having sincere

3084
02:01:12,950 --> 02:01:09,679
difficulties with this and um

3085
02:01:14,950 --> 02:01:12,960
the navy pilots it was reported

3086
02:01:16,310 --> 02:01:14,960
that in 215 they had near daily

3087
02:01:18,950 --> 02:01:16,320
encounters

3088
02:01:19,510 --> 02:01:18,960
um and that's a problem and i think they

3089
02:01:22,310 --> 02:01:19,520
have a

3090
02:01:24,229 --> 02:01:22,320
real problem on their hands that they

3091
02:01:27,589 --> 02:01:24,239
didn't have the ability to

3092
02:01:29,669 --> 02:01:27,599
easily talk about this to

3093
02:01:32,149 --> 02:01:29,679
um people higher up like the secretary

3094
02:01:35,669 --> 02:01:32,159
of defense so

3095
02:01:36,070 --> 02:01:35,679
so or people in congress so how do you

3096
02:01:38,950 --> 02:01:36,080
go

3097
02:01:40,790 --> 02:01:38,960
for how do you get assistance unless you

3098
02:01:42,229 --> 02:01:40,800
can talk more freely about this so i

3099
02:01:44,070 --> 02:01:42,239
think that

3100
02:01:45,589 --> 02:01:44,080
that probably would have to have

3101
02:01:47,990 --> 02:01:45,599
something to do with it that

3102
02:01:49,830 --> 02:01:48,000
that i'm getting congress involved

3103
02:01:50,550 --> 02:01:49,840
because you have a real problem on your

3104
02:01:54,550 --> 02:01:50,560
hands

3105
02:01:55,669 --> 02:01:54,560
um and so that's to me what looks like

3106
02:01:58,790 --> 02:01:55,679
what's going on

3107
02:02:00,149 --> 02:01:58,800
and and i would hope that you know as as

3108
02:02:02,070 --> 02:02:00,159
part of the answer

3109
02:02:03,910 --> 02:02:02,080
you know from the recommendation from

3110
02:02:04,950 --> 02:02:03,920
the uap task force that they recommend

3111
02:02:06,790 --> 02:02:04,960
that

3112
02:02:08,470 --> 02:02:06,800
you know we study these things

3113
02:02:10,229 --> 02:02:08,480
scientifically and openly and

3114
02:02:13,430 --> 02:02:10,239
and one of the ways they could support

3115
02:02:15,350 --> 02:02:13,440
this is provide a funding mechanism

3116
02:02:17,430 --> 02:02:15,360
um that would be interesting and it

3117
02:02:20,629 --> 02:02:17,440
doesn't you know it doesn't have to be

3118
02:02:23,750 --> 02:02:20,639
a lot probably um but it has but by

3119
02:02:26,310 --> 02:02:23,760
providing a funding mechanism

3120
02:02:28,070 --> 02:02:26,320
you would do a few things you would one

3121
02:02:29,750 --> 02:02:28,080
you would legitimize it

3122
02:02:32,149 --> 02:02:29,760
which would make it far easier for

3123
02:02:33,669 --> 02:02:32,159
scientists to to work on this and to

3124
02:02:36,629 --> 02:02:33,679
feel that they can work on this

3125
02:02:37,910 --> 02:02:36,639
and so they're going to be more people

3126
02:02:38,550 --> 02:02:37,920
because there are scientists who are

3127
02:02:41,830 --> 02:02:38,560
studying

3128
02:02:44,390 --> 02:02:41,840
it quietly

3129
02:02:45,270 --> 02:02:44,400
because they worry about ridicule or

3130
02:02:49,030 --> 02:02:45,280
whatever so

3131
02:02:51,430 --> 02:02:49,040
because it still is a taboo topic so

3132
02:02:53,109 --> 02:02:51,440
by having some kind of funding stream

3133
02:02:55,990 --> 02:02:53,119
you would legitimize it

3134
02:02:57,910 --> 02:02:56,000
um it would then you know some

3135
02:02:58,390 --> 02:02:57,920
scientists who wanted to study this

3136
02:02:59,589 --> 02:02:58,400
would

3137
02:03:02,390 --> 02:02:59,599
see more support from their

3138
02:03:04,470 --> 02:03:02,400
administrators funding always helps

3139
02:03:07,350 --> 02:03:04,480
administrators make decisions

3140
02:03:08,950 --> 02:03:07,360
um and and so on and it would also give

3141
02:03:11,030 --> 02:03:08,960
them the ability to

3142
02:03:12,470 --> 02:03:11,040
um to actually do the work kevin and

3143
02:03:14,950 --> 02:03:12,480
jacques what does it mean

3144
02:03:16,550 --> 02:03:14,960
for the amateur scientist or even the

3145
02:03:17,669 --> 02:03:16,560
professional scientist what does it mean

3146
02:03:19,109 --> 02:03:17,679
to study this

3147
02:03:21,189 --> 02:03:19,119
how would they go about doing that do

3148
02:03:22,470 --> 02:03:21,199
they just look at the nimitz video or

3149
02:03:24,390 --> 02:03:22,480
the tic tac video

3150
02:03:26,470 --> 02:03:24,400
and they analyze it based on speed what

3151
02:03:28,070 --> 02:03:26,480
do they do do they speak to people do

3152
02:03:30,550 --> 02:03:28,080
they read your books

3153
02:03:31,910 --> 02:03:30,560
yeah i think i think what has to happen

3154
02:03:37,990 --> 02:03:31,920
is

3155
02:03:39,109 --> 02:03:38,000
um we can't be relying on how do you

3156
02:03:41,669 --> 02:03:39,119
collect data on what's

3157
02:03:42,870 --> 02:03:41,679
not repeatable that's right well you do

3158
02:03:46,470 --> 02:03:42,880
what you do with

3159
02:03:47,990 --> 02:03:46,480
supernovas you watch if you can't

3160
02:03:48,870 --> 02:03:48,000
how do you collect data on a supernova

3161
02:03:50,709 --> 02:03:48,880
you have to wait till there's a

3162
02:03:51,750 --> 02:03:50,719
supernova and somebody happens to see it

3163
02:03:53,350 --> 02:03:51,760
right so

3164
02:03:56,229 --> 02:03:53,360
there's two possibilities really you

3165
02:03:56,709 --> 02:03:56,239
could you know you watch yourself so you

3166
02:03:58,950 --> 02:03:56,719
just

3167
02:03:59,910 --> 02:03:58,960
stare at the sky and collect collect

3168
02:04:04,069 --> 02:03:59,920
data and

3169
02:04:06,870 --> 02:04:04,079
interesting that's one way to do it

3170
02:04:07,830 --> 02:04:06,880
um that's the chance of success is of

3171
02:04:10,550 --> 02:04:07,840
course small

3172
02:04:11,750 --> 02:04:10,560
and you would then first hope that you

3173
02:04:13,350 --> 02:04:11,760
would

3174
02:04:14,950 --> 02:04:13,360
be able to do this in a location where

3175
02:04:16,790 --> 02:04:14,960
you have a higher chance of success so

3176
02:04:19,830 --> 02:04:16,800
knowing where these things are more

3177
02:04:21,350 --> 02:04:19,840
frequently cited is helpful um that's

3178
02:04:24,709 --> 02:04:21,360
one possibility

3179
02:04:27,030 --> 02:04:24,719
the other possibility is to do what

3180
02:04:27,830 --> 02:04:27,040
does happen with supernovas is you have

3181
02:04:30,870 --> 02:04:27,840
amateur

3182
02:04:32,550 --> 02:04:30,880
astronomers spot them and then the

3183
02:04:34,950 --> 02:04:32,560
professionals turn all their telescopes

3184
02:04:37,910 --> 02:04:34,960
to look at it right so

3185
02:04:39,430 --> 02:04:37,920
so in that case it doesn't quite work

3186
02:04:42,310 --> 02:04:39,440
for ufos because

3187
02:04:42,709 --> 02:04:42,320
you have an amateur spot it and then the

3188
02:04:44,709 --> 02:04:42,719
things

3189
02:04:45,750 --> 02:04:44,719
zipped off and the whole event is over

3190
02:04:48,950 --> 02:04:45,760
but

3191
02:04:51,350 --> 02:04:48,960
what is becoming more and more

3192
02:04:53,189 --> 02:04:51,360
possible is the fact that we have more

3193
02:04:55,030 --> 02:04:53,199
and more satellite coverage

3194
02:04:56,310 --> 02:04:55,040
and more and more continuous satellite

3195
02:04:59,109 --> 02:04:56,320
coverage so

3196
02:05:00,870 --> 02:04:59,119
it is becoming more possible to take a

3197
02:05:02,870 --> 02:05:00,880
prominent sighting especially one that

3198
02:05:06,229 --> 02:05:02,880
lasts for some period of time

3199
02:05:08,550 --> 02:05:06,239
and to then have people go back and gets

3200
02:05:09,910 --> 02:05:08,560
obtain satellite images of that area to

3201
02:05:13,270 --> 02:05:09,920
try to get

3202
02:05:14,069 --> 02:05:13,280
um some imagery from the sky that would

3203
02:05:15,669 --> 02:05:14,079
be

3204
02:05:17,589 --> 02:05:15,679
you know i call that you know a

3205
02:05:18,149 --> 02:05:17,599
third-party eye in the sky which would

3206
02:05:21,910 --> 02:05:18,159
be

3207
02:05:25,270 --> 02:05:21,920
a great um a great asset to

3208
02:05:27,669 --> 02:05:25,280
you know a witness anecdotes

3209
02:05:28,629 --> 02:05:27,679
also there there are organizations like

3210
02:05:32,310 --> 02:05:28,639
new farm the

3211
02:05:34,709 --> 02:05:32,320
mutual ufo network that

3212
02:05:36,229 --> 02:05:34,719
are not exactly professional

3213
02:05:39,270 --> 02:05:36,239
organizations but

3214
02:05:42,310 --> 02:05:39,280
they they do a good job of

3215
02:05:45,030 --> 02:05:42,320
collecting data locally

3216
02:05:47,589 --> 02:05:45,040
and scientists could get could get

3217
02:05:50,470 --> 02:05:47,599
access to that on the on the local level

3218
02:05:50,870 --> 02:05:50,480
and just in in areas they know they

3219
02:05:53,990 --> 02:05:50,880
could

3220
02:05:54,390 --> 02:05:54,000
go into the field with those those teams

3221
02:05:58,310 --> 02:05:54,400
and

3222
02:06:00,950 --> 02:05:58,320
get some uh now eighty percent of those

3223
02:06:02,069 --> 02:06:00,960
of that data of the reports can be

3224
02:06:04,550 --> 02:06:02,079
explained

3225
02:06:05,189 --> 02:06:04,560
which is why the skeptics legitimately

3226
02:06:06,709 --> 02:06:05,199
say

3227
02:06:08,709 --> 02:06:06,719
if you can explain eighty percent of

3228
02:06:10,790 --> 02:06:08,719
something uh that doesn't

3229
02:06:13,510 --> 02:06:10,800
that that means that the other twenty

3230
02:06:17,030 --> 02:06:13,520
percent probably isn't worth looking at

3231
02:06:18,229 --> 02:06:17,040
that's not a good way of proceeding in

3232
02:06:21,430 --> 02:06:18,239
science because

3233
02:06:22,870 --> 02:06:21,440
you can usually you can you know explain

3234
02:06:25,030 --> 02:06:22,880
eighty percent of something

3235
02:06:26,550 --> 02:06:25,040
what's interesting is what what remains

3236
02:06:29,669 --> 02:06:26,560
i mean you know

3237
02:06:32,310 --> 02:06:29,679
uh so it's it's like

3238
02:06:33,750 --> 02:06:32,320
you know in chemistry refining something

3239
02:06:35,990 --> 02:06:33,760
until you get

3240
02:06:37,030 --> 02:06:36,000
the the important uh the important

3241
02:06:40,229 --> 02:06:37,040
substance

3242
02:06:41,189 --> 02:06:40,239
and so yes but it's it's always

3243
02:06:48,870 --> 02:06:41,199
interesting

3244
02:06:49,830 --> 02:06:48,880
there are cases that are very hard to

3245
02:06:52,470 --> 02:06:49,840
explain

3246
02:06:55,270 --> 02:06:52,480
and if you can put them into a pattern

3247
02:06:58,390 --> 02:06:55,280
then you're beginning to

3248
02:07:01,990 --> 02:06:58,400
to to get valuable information in

3249
02:07:05,189 --> 02:07:02,000
the problem with the military data is

3250
02:07:07,510 --> 02:07:05,199
you know the military is driven by

3251
02:07:08,629 --> 02:07:07,520
what they call seek you die you know

3252
02:07:11,990 --> 02:07:08,639
computing control

3253
02:07:14,950 --> 02:07:12,000
communication and intelligence so you

3254
02:07:16,069 --> 02:07:14,960
have to and they keep talking about data

3255
02:07:19,430 --> 02:07:16,079
fusion

3256
02:07:21,510 --> 02:07:19,440
well even in a case like the limits

3257
02:07:23,430 --> 02:07:21,520
what what we have is outstanding

3258
02:07:26,870 --> 02:07:23,440
observation by the pirates

3259
02:07:29,669 --> 02:07:26,880
i mean the pilots had several minutes of

3260
02:07:30,870 --> 02:07:29,679
visual observation of something that was

3261
02:07:32,950 --> 02:07:30,880
under the plane

3262
02:07:34,069 --> 02:07:32,960
between the plane and the ocean that

3263
02:07:36,709 --> 02:07:34,079
they circled

3264
02:07:39,189 --> 02:07:36,719
that they observed and i you know i i

3265
02:07:41,430 --> 02:07:39,199
worked at one time with one of the

3266
02:07:42,870 --> 02:07:41,440
the pilots not the first ones but the

3267
02:07:45,030 --> 02:07:42,880
ones that came after them

3268
02:07:47,189 --> 02:07:45,040
there is no question this happened there

3269
02:07:50,470 --> 02:07:47,199
is no question they saw something

3270
02:07:54,229 --> 02:07:50,480
they had data then there was

3271
02:07:56,229 --> 02:07:54,239
data from the cameras that were thermal

3272
02:07:56,709 --> 02:07:56,239
cameras they were not people talk about

3273
02:07:58,629 --> 02:07:56,719
it

3274
02:08:00,229 --> 02:07:58,639
as if those were photographs those are

3275
02:08:02,950 --> 02:08:00,239
not photographs

3276
02:08:04,390 --> 02:08:02,960
and somewhere there is a 10-page memo

3277
02:08:07,510 --> 02:08:04,400
from raytheon

3278
02:08:09,910 --> 02:08:07,520
to the us navy saying

3279
02:08:11,510 --> 02:08:09,920
you know you you do what you want with

3280
02:08:13,910 --> 02:08:11,520
what we've given you

3281
02:08:15,830 --> 02:08:13,920
but remember those are not images i mean

3282
02:08:18,069 --> 02:08:15,840
those are thermal images

3283
02:08:19,510 --> 02:08:18,079
because what we've sold you is an

3284
02:08:22,390 --> 02:08:19,520
infrared camera

3285
02:08:24,069 --> 02:08:22,400
that was not designed for ufo which was

3286
02:08:26,709 --> 02:08:24,079
designed for something else

3287
02:08:28,390 --> 02:08:26,719
namely watching the exhaust of you know

3288
02:08:31,589 --> 02:08:28,400
of an enemy plane

3289
02:08:32,310 --> 02:08:31,599
so yes it's useful yes it's physical

3290
02:08:34,149 --> 02:08:32,320
data

3291
02:08:36,310 --> 02:08:34,159
but by the way we're not giving you a

3292
02:08:37,669 --> 02:08:36,320
distance and we're giving you a

3293
02:08:40,709 --> 02:08:37,679
temperature

3294
02:08:41,109 --> 02:08:40,719
and we're not giving you a picture now

3295
02:08:43,589 --> 02:08:41,119
people

3296
02:08:45,270 --> 02:08:43,599
are going off from that extrapolating to

3297
02:08:47,430 --> 02:08:45,280
all kinds of things

3298
02:08:48,870 --> 02:08:47,440
again we don't have the c cube die we

3299
02:08:50,629 --> 02:08:48,880
don't have the other

3300
02:08:52,069 --> 02:08:50,639
you know the control the communication

3301
02:08:55,510 --> 02:08:52,079
and the intelligence

3302
02:08:58,870 --> 02:08:55,520
we have images that are very interesting

3303
02:09:01,430 --> 02:08:58,880
that are captivating we have instances

3304
02:09:04,470 --> 02:09:01,440
of motion that we don't understand

3305
02:09:05,270 --> 02:09:04,480
but you know there are ways of making

3306
02:09:08,229 --> 02:09:05,280
things

3307
02:09:09,990 --> 02:09:08,239
appear that i'm not there on an

3308
02:09:12,550 --> 02:09:10,000
electronic screen

3309
02:09:14,229 --> 02:09:12,560
uh that have developed been developed as

3310
02:09:18,790 --> 02:09:14,239
counter measures or they're

3311
02:09:22,390 --> 02:09:18,800
active measures or for 40 years 50 years

3312
02:09:25,030 --> 02:09:22,400
so that needs to be analyzed separately

3313
02:09:25,830 --> 02:09:25,040
by experts so you cannot just jump to

3314
02:09:28,390 --> 02:09:25,840
the first

3315
02:09:30,229 --> 02:09:28,400
picture that somebody shows you and say

3316
02:09:32,790 --> 02:09:30,239
you know i got it i'm going to

3317
02:09:33,750 --> 02:09:32,800
convince the academy you know you have

3318
02:09:37,109 --> 02:09:33,760
to

3319
02:09:39,910 --> 02:09:37,119
get the other things but again

3320
02:09:40,550 --> 02:09:39,920
uh there are good amateur groups that

3321
02:09:43,669 --> 02:09:40,560
are

3322
02:09:46,870 --> 02:09:43,679
doing that in the field with

3323
02:09:49,430 --> 02:09:46,880
intelligence and with care and

3324
02:09:51,350 --> 02:09:49,440
i think you know you can join them and

3325
02:09:53,430 --> 02:09:51,360
go into the field with them and bring a

3326
02:09:55,589 --> 02:09:53,440
shovel

3327
02:09:57,109 --> 02:09:55,599
snooze this person named snooze wants to

3328
02:09:58,550 --> 02:09:57,119
know from jacques what do you plan on

3329
02:09:59,669 --> 02:09:58,560
doing with all the files that you've

3330
02:10:01,030 --> 02:09:59,679
documented

3331
02:10:02,790 --> 02:10:01,040
over the course of your lifetime in

3332
02:10:05,910 --> 02:10:02,800
investigation so

3333
02:10:08,470 --> 02:10:05,920
most of it i have turned over to a

3334
02:10:11,750 --> 02:10:08,480
university

3335
02:10:13,350 --> 02:10:11,760
with a 10-year embargo so i've

3336
02:10:16,790 --> 02:10:13,360
documented it

3337
02:10:20,629 --> 02:10:16,800
it covers something like 60 boxes of

3338
02:10:22,629 --> 02:10:20,639
stuff after filtering the junk

3339
02:10:24,709 --> 02:10:22,639
and it covers a lot of the work i've

3340
02:10:27,750 --> 02:10:24,719
done with dr heineck a lot of the

3341
02:10:30,310 --> 02:10:27,760
network that will be available

3342
02:10:31,510 --> 02:10:30,320
i think for a long time and even during

3343
02:10:33,830 --> 02:10:31,520
the embargo

3344
02:10:34,790 --> 02:10:33,840
if someone with qualifications in

3345
02:10:37,270 --> 02:10:34,800
science

3346
02:10:39,189 --> 02:10:37,280
wants to have access to it there is a

3347
02:10:42,229 --> 02:10:39,199
catalog and people can

3348
02:10:43,589 --> 02:10:42,239
will have access to to those files i

3349
02:10:46,470 --> 02:10:43,599
have kept

3350
02:10:48,709 --> 02:10:46,480
two kinds of files i've kept about 200

3351
02:10:51,350 --> 02:10:48,719
files that i want to continue

3352
02:10:53,830 --> 02:10:51,360
to study because i've been there and i

3353
02:10:57,109 --> 02:10:53,840
know those cases

3354
02:10:59,910 --> 02:10:57,119
files like this case in new mexico

3355
02:11:01,589 --> 02:10:59,920
i certainly keep right now for myself

3356
02:11:05,669 --> 02:11:01,599
and then the files of

3357
02:11:09,030 --> 02:11:05,679
material studies that i'm still

3358
02:11:12,390 --> 02:11:09,040
gathering and investigating with

3359
02:11:14,629 --> 02:11:12,400
with other people in silicon valley uh

3360
02:11:15,910 --> 02:11:14,639
who are interested and we're going to

3361
02:11:18,629 --> 02:11:15,920
need help by the way

3362
02:11:20,470 --> 02:11:18,639
and the intent is to publish and to

3363
02:11:22,550 --> 02:11:20,480
share the samples themselves

3364
02:11:25,270 --> 02:11:22,560
we're not going to put them in a you

3365
02:11:28,470 --> 02:11:25,280
know in a safe deposit box forever

3366
02:11:31,750 --> 02:11:28,480
i mean those those should be shared um

3367
02:11:35,270 --> 02:11:31,760
again uh dr stuart has

3368
02:11:37,830 --> 02:11:35,280
entrusted to me the cases from ubatuba

3369
02:11:39,189 --> 02:11:37,840
and some of that you know i could share

3370
02:11:41,669 --> 02:11:39,199
as well

3371
02:11:42,229 --> 02:11:41,679
i have a quick question for for jacques

3372
02:11:43,990 --> 02:11:42,239
though

3373
02:11:45,669 --> 02:11:44,000
um you mentioned scientists getting

3374
02:11:48,629 --> 02:11:45,679
involved and grabbing a shovel

3375
02:11:49,510 --> 02:11:48,639
so so let me take that a bit further if

3376
02:11:52,870 --> 02:11:49,520
i remember

3377
02:11:53,990 --> 02:11:52,880
what i read about the story of the

3378
02:11:58,149 --> 02:11:54,000
trinity case

3379
02:12:00,550 --> 02:11:58,159
um that not all of the craft was

3380
02:12:02,069 --> 02:12:00,560
recovered and taken away that there were

3381
02:12:03,030 --> 02:12:02,079
there was one point that they were

3382
02:12:05,990 --> 02:12:03,040
basically

3383
02:12:07,030 --> 02:12:06,000
bulldozing debris into an arroyo and

3384
02:12:08,950 --> 02:12:07,040
then filled it up

3385
02:12:10,950 --> 02:12:08,960
is that is that the case and if that's

3386
02:12:12,069 --> 02:12:10,960
the case uh exact possibility between

3387
02:12:14,790 --> 02:12:12,079
archaeology

3388
02:12:16,790 --> 02:12:14,800
you know the the recovery scene is

3389
02:12:17,350 --> 02:12:16,800
completely the opposite of what you see

3390
02:12:19,830 --> 02:12:17,360
in

3391
02:12:21,189 --> 02:12:19,840
mr spielberg's movies you know people

3392
02:12:23,669 --> 02:12:21,199
with special suits so

3393
02:12:25,990 --> 02:12:23,679
there's a bunch of 18 year olds who were

3394
02:12:28,550 --> 02:12:26,000
close to being released from the war

3395
02:12:29,189 --> 02:12:28,560
uh they were still in uniform they were

3396
02:12:31,589 --> 02:12:29,199
at uh

3397
02:12:32,550 --> 02:12:31,599
ground zero completely bored and they

3398
02:12:35,109 --> 02:12:32,560
are sent there

3399
02:12:37,189 --> 02:12:35,119
so the scene is they get there with a

3400
02:12:39,990 --> 02:12:37,199
jeep the jeep is playing the radio

3401
02:12:42,470 --> 02:12:40,000
so it's playing you know cowboy songs

3402
02:12:44,149 --> 02:12:42,480
and these kids essentially are going

3403
02:12:45,910 --> 02:12:44,159
under orders to gather all this

3404
02:12:49,910 --> 02:12:45,920
information and all that

3405
02:12:52,629 --> 02:12:49,920
metal that's glittering the landscape so

3406
02:12:54,310 --> 02:12:52,639
they are a little bit lazy and then you

3407
02:12:55,109 --> 02:12:54,320
know some of it that's left at the end

3408
02:12:57,350 --> 02:12:55,119
of the day

3409
02:12:58,229 --> 02:12:57,360
they're going to throw into a hole and

3410
02:13:01,430 --> 02:12:58,239
cover it

3411
02:13:04,629 --> 02:13:01,440
with dirt so presumably it's still there

3412
02:13:05,669 --> 02:13:04,639
the problem is that particular area is

3413
02:13:07,910 --> 02:13:05,679
unstable

3414
02:13:09,350 --> 02:13:07,920
there are creeks going through there

3415
02:13:13,990 --> 02:13:09,360
those arroyos are not

3416
02:13:16,390 --> 02:13:14,000
always psycho you know a royal seiko

3417
02:13:17,030 --> 02:13:16,400
sometimes it's filled with water and it

3418
02:13:20,709 --> 02:13:17,040
it

3419
02:13:24,149 --> 02:13:20,719
washes out the dirt so by now

3420
02:13:26,229 --> 02:13:24,159
you know 70 years later

3421
02:13:27,910 --> 02:13:26,239
whatever was there has been washed away

3422
02:13:31,350 --> 02:13:27,920
and people have been

3423
02:13:33,430 --> 02:13:31,360
bulldozing that area rebuilding it so

3424
02:13:35,109 --> 02:13:33,440
by now anything that would be at ground

3425
02:13:38,470 --> 02:13:35,119
level would be now

3426
02:13:42,229 --> 02:13:38,480
25 feet under dirt the of

3427
02:13:45,589 --> 02:13:42,239
the earth dam that has been rebuilt

3428
02:13:48,470 --> 02:13:45,599
so there is when we thought of that

3429
02:13:50,390 --> 02:13:48,480
and we went there with shovels there is

3430
02:13:54,069 --> 02:13:50,400
very little chance of

3431
02:13:57,910 --> 02:13:54,079
getting something back um

3432
02:13:59,990 --> 02:13:57,920
the um and furthermore i think that the

3433
02:14:02,470 --> 02:14:00,000
pieces that would be interesting

3434
02:14:04,069 --> 02:14:02,480
that would have structure you know other

3435
02:14:05,750 --> 02:14:04,079
than there are other places in new

3436
02:14:08,310 --> 02:14:05,760
mexico where i've gone

3437
02:14:09,350 --> 02:14:08,320
where we have dug up things you know we

3438
02:14:11,910 --> 02:14:09,360
you go with a

3439
02:14:12,870 --> 02:14:11,920
metal detector most of the time you're

3440
02:14:16,229 --> 02:14:12,880
going to find

3441
02:14:18,870 --> 02:14:16,239
old you know metal rusty metal

3442
02:14:19,589 --> 02:14:18,880
cans and i can tell you what the army

3443
02:14:24,310 --> 02:14:19,599
was

3444
02:14:27,430 --> 02:14:24,320
drinking you know in 1940

3445
02:14:30,629 --> 02:14:27,440
for this five or four b7 but uh

3446
02:14:34,390 --> 02:14:30,639
but you do find pieces of metal that

3447
02:14:35,270 --> 02:14:34,400
seem like they've come out of some sort

3448
02:14:37,430 --> 02:14:35,280
of crash

3449
02:14:38,950 --> 02:14:37,440
then we have those and we're going to

3450
02:14:40,069 --> 02:14:38,960
look at it most of the time it's

3451
02:14:43,430 --> 02:14:40,079
aluminum

3452
02:14:46,709 --> 02:14:43,440
and you know so there

3453
02:14:47,350 --> 02:14:46,719
you don't learn a lot by doing that but

3454
02:14:50,550 --> 02:14:47,360
you could be

3455
02:14:53,910 --> 02:14:50,560
find

3456
02:14:54,870 --> 02:14:53,920
you know a printed circuit or you know a

3457
02:14:57,589 --> 02:14:54,880
device

3458
02:14:58,550 --> 02:14:57,599
of some sort that doesn't mean we would

3459
02:15:00,790 --> 02:14:58,560
understand it

3460
02:15:03,109 --> 02:15:00,800
but uh you know it would be a nice thing

3461
02:15:04,470 --> 02:15:03,119
to analyze it

3462
02:15:06,629 --> 02:15:04,480
kevin do you have any other questions

3463
02:15:10,310 --> 02:15:06,639
for jacques

3464
02:15:14,229 --> 02:15:10,320
um yeah did you so so

3465
02:15:17,350 --> 02:15:14,239
was it padilla or the other guy had um

3466
02:15:18,310 --> 02:15:17,360
saved some of the s pulled something out

3467
02:15:20,390 --> 02:15:18,320
of the craft

3468
02:15:21,350 --> 02:15:20,400
and kept in his attic or something for

3469
02:15:24,550 --> 02:15:21,360
some time

3470
02:15:25,350 --> 02:15:24,560
yes there is a bracket that we that we

3471
02:15:29,189 --> 02:15:25,360
have

3472
02:15:30,069 --> 02:15:29,199
yeah that um was attached to the wall of

3473
02:15:32,310 --> 02:15:30,079
the craft

3474
02:15:33,589 --> 02:15:32,320
that was the only thing there there was

3475
02:15:36,550 --> 02:15:33,599
there was a paddle

3476
02:15:39,109 --> 02:15:36,560
that he couldn't get loose the panel was

3477
02:15:41,030 --> 02:15:39,119
attached to was pinned to the wall

3478
02:15:42,629 --> 02:15:41,040
it was about the size of your screen you

3479
02:15:45,750 --> 02:15:42,639
know three by two

3480
02:15:46,950 --> 02:15:45,760
feet it had a ring that looked like a

3481
02:15:48,709 --> 02:15:46,960
copper ring

3482
02:15:50,870 --> 02:15:48,719
and in the center there was a bracket

3483
02:15:53,990 --> 02:15:50,880
that turned

3484
02:15:56,790 --> 02:15:54,000
mr padilla who is still alive uh

3485
02:15:58,390 --> 02:15:56,800
got what they call the cheater bar which

3486
02:16:01,990 --> 02:15:58,400
is used by truckers to

3487
02:16:05,109 --> 02:16:02,000
you know to tighten up the the links

3488
02:16:06,950 --> 02:16:05,119
and he got it from the truck from the

3489
02:16:09,350 --> 02:16:06,960
army truck

3490
02:16:10,310 --> 02:16:09,360
and he branched the thing out and we

3491
02:16:12,550 --> 02:16:10,320
have it

3492
02:16:13,430 --> 02:16:12,560
they preserved it for you know all this

3493
02:16:16,310 --> 02:16:13,440
time

3494
02:16:18,149 --> 02:16:16,320
hiding it which is also one reason they

3495
02:16:19,750 --> 02:16:18,159
didn't come forward with the

3496
02:16:22,870 --> 02:16:19,760
story they thought they would be put in

3497
02:16:25,109 --> 02:16:22,880
jail for stealing government property

3498
02:16:26,470 --> 02:16:25,119
except that the the craft didn't belong

3499
02:16:29,669 --> 02:16:26,480
to the government

3500
02:16:32,070 --> 02:16:29,679
anyway we have it

3501
02:16:33,589 --> 02:16:32,080
and uh we don't really care where it

3502
02:16:36,790 --> 02:16:33,599
came from

3503
02:16:39,509 --> 02:16:36,800
it's interesting it's not

3504
02:16:40,469 --> 02:16:39,519
alien the way you'd like an alien

3505
02:16:44,309 --> 02:16:40,479
bracket to be

3506
02:16:46,950 --> 02:16:44,319
i mean in fact it has been analyzed by

3507
02:16:49,750 --> 02:16:46,960
three times by different labs we know

3508
02:16:53,910 --> 02:16:49,760
the composition it's basically aluminum

3509
02:16:58,150 --> 02:16:53,920
uh it's called cylimine s-i-l-u-m-i-n

3510
02:17:00,629 --> 02:16:58,160
it's a well-known lie of of

3511
02:17:01,830 --> 02:17:00,639
aluminum to give some strength to the

3512
02:17:04,309 --> 02:17:01,840
aluminum

3513
02:17:06,389 --> 02:17:04,319
there are some unusual things with it

3514
02:17:08,629 --> 02:17:06,399
there is no marking on it

3515
02:17:10,469 --> 02:17:08,639
usually there is a brand i mean usually

3516
02:17:13,190 --> 02:17:10,479
those are made by industry

3517
02:17:14,070 --> 02:17:13,200
for an industrial purpose like

3518
02:17:16,469 --> 02:17:14,080
activating

3519
02:17:17,990 --> 02:17:16,479
and it's essentially what you use in an

3520
02:17:21,270 --> 02:17:18,000
actuator

3521
02:17:22,309 --> 02:17:21,280
um you would find something like that in

3522
02:17:24,309 --> 02:17:22,319
a windmill

3523
02:17:26,389 --> 02:17:24,319
in fact i went out and bought something

3524
02:17:30,150 --> 02:17:26,399
like it it looks like this

3525
02:17:32,950 --> 02:17:30,160
okay and uh you know it turns like this

3526
02:17:34,469 --> 02:17:32,960
and when it turns it has you know it has

3527
02:17:38,629 --> 02:17:34,479
these holes here

3528
02:17:40,389 --> 02:17:38,639
that can activate something so uh

3529
02:17:41,750 --> 02:17:40,399
there are things like that that you use

3530
02:17:44,629 --> 02:17:41,760
in windmill

3531
02:17:45,270 --> 02:17:44,639
to feather the blades of the windmill in

3532
02:17:47,429 --> 02:17:45,280
high wind

3533
02:17:51,110 --> 02:17:47,439
and so on so so it's a well-known

3534
02:17:55,509 --> 02:17:53,990
i have i'm in a little argument with

3535
02:17:57,910 --> 02:17:55,519
some of my friends

3536
02:17:58,790 --> 02:17:57,920
who say yes well it looks human but by

3537
02:18:00,549 --> 02:17:58,800
the way

3538
02:18:02,309 --> 02:18:00,559
it's in the metric system when you

3539
02:18:05,509 --> 02:18:02,319
measure the holes so

3540
02:18:08,309 --> 02:18:05,519
which we've done with good precision

3541
02:18:10,150 --> 02:18:08,319
and nobody was using the metric system

3542
02:18:13,270 --> 02:18:10,160
in new mexico in 1945

3543
02:18:15,270 --> 02:18:13,280
so where did it come from

3544
02:18:17,030 --> 02:18:15,280
well it could have been made for a

3545
02:18:19,990 --> 02:18:17,040
particular purpose

3546
02:18:21,669 --> 02:18:20,000
and you could say well the army made it

3547
02:18:24,790 --> 02:18:21,679
on the spot

3548
02:18:25,509 --> 02:18:24,800
or they got it from somewhere maybe from

3549
02:18:28,469 --> 02:18:25,519
the tower

3550
02:18:31,110 --> 02:18:28,479
you know it had been wrecked and they

3551
02:18:33,349 --> 02:18:31,120
used it to wind

3552
02:18:34,389 --> 02:18:33,359
an electrical wire i mean they didn't

3553
02:18:36,709 --> 02:18:34,399
have any power

3554
02:18:39,030 --> 02:18:36,719
except any power they could get from the

3555
02:18:40,309 --> 02:18:39,040
jeep i used to drive a jeep i know you

3556
02:18:43,589 --> 02:18:40,319
can generate

3557
02:18:46,070 --> 02:18:43,599
power useful power from the jeep and

3558
02:18:47,990 --> 02:18:46,080
maybe they needed a wire inside the

3559
02:18:51,030 --> 02:18:48,000
thing for lighting or for

3560
02:18:53,910 --> 02:18:51,040
cleaning or whatever that's my

3561
02:18:55,990 --> 02:18:53,920
hypothesis my friends are saying wait

3562
02:18:59,190 --> 02:18:56,000
you know we need to look inside

3563
02:19:01,669 --> 02:18:59,200
uh there may be some structures

3564
02:19:03,910 --> 02:19:01,679
inside that would tell us some more so

3565
02:19:06,870 --> 02:19:03,920
that's where we are i mean we have this

3566
02:19:07,910 --> 02:19:06,880
this ongoing argument i i think it's

3567
02:19:10,629 --> 02:19:07,920
human

3568
02:19:12,230 --> 02:19:10,639
but i can't explain the way it looks

3569
02:19:15,110 --> 02:19:12,240
we've gone to windmill

3570
02:19:16,150 --> 02:19:15,120
experts where paola went to a company

3571
02:19:18,230 --> 02:19:16,160
that makes

3572
02:19:19,750 --> 02:19:18,240
things like what i've shown you and they

3573
02:19:22,230 --> 02:19:19,760
say no we don't use

3574
02:19:22,870 --> 02:19:22,240
we have actuators in windmills but

3575
02:19:26,230 --> 02:19:22,880
they're not

3576
02:19:29,509 --> 02:19:26,240
like what you're telling us so

3577
02:19:31,990 --> 02:19:29,519
uh we have to look somewhere else if if

3578
02:19:33,750 --> 02:19:32,000
some of the people watching this have an

3579
02:19:35,910 --> 02:19:33,760
idea

3580
02:19:37,030 --> 02:19:35,920
we've i've published the dimensions and

3581
02:19:39,429 --> 02:19:37,040
so on in

3582
02:19:41,190 --> 02:19:39,439
in the book and if people have an idea

3583
02:19:44,549 --> 02:19:41,200
of where it would be used

3584
02:19:46,830 --> 02:19:44,559
maybe in aerospace maybe as actuators in

3585
02:19:50,070 --> 02:19:46,840
a in a big aircraft

3586
02:19:53,110 --> 02:19:50,080
um from 1945

3587
02:19:56,150 --> 02:19:53,120
uh maybe that's what it is

3588
02:19:58,469 --> 02:19:56,160
so we're certainly not saying it's alien

3589
02:20:00,710 --> 02:19:58,479
just because it's it was inside that

3590
02:20:02,710 --> 02:20:00,720
craft

3591
02:20:04,150 --> 02:20:02,720
kevin please think of any other

3592
02:20:05,910 --> 02:20:04,160
questions or comments you have to shock

3593
02:20:07,190 --> 02:20:05,920
and you're being very generous with your

3594
02:20:10,870 --> 02:20:07,200
time it's been

3595
02:20:11,349 --> 02:20:10,880
over two hours um what is meant when you

3596
02:20:15,110 --> 02:20:11,359
say that

3597
02:20:18,070 --> 02:20:15,120
it's the metric system it's made

3598
02:20:19,110 --> 02:20:18,080
exactly with millimeters yeah the

3599
02:20:21,270 --> 02:20:19,120
millimeters and

3600
02:20:22,309 --> 02:20:21,280
tenths of millimeters when when you

3601
02:20:24,710 --> 02:20:22,319
measure the

3602
02:20:26,630 --> 02:20:24,720
the different holes and attachments and

3603
02:20:30,150 --> 02:20:26,640
the size of it and so on so

3604
02:20:32,790 --> 02:20:30,160
it's it's very well documented in

3605
02:20:35,750 --> 02:20:32,800
in in our system of measurement and we

3606
02:20:39,110 --> 02:20:35,760
know the composition very well

3607
02:20:40,389 --> 02:20:39,120
the question is what was it doing there

3608
02:20:42,830 --> 02:20:40,399
i'll take some audience questions and

3609
02:20:46,389 --> 02:20:42,840
then i know both of you have to get

3610
02:20:51,349 --> 02:20:48,550
have any of you heard of operation high

3611
02:20:58,790 --> 02:20:54,630
yes uh i don't know

3612
02:21:01,110 --> 02:20:58,800
i don't know much about it it it

3613
02:21:02,070 --> 02:21:01,120
is it the operation that had to do with

3614
02:21:05,349 --> 02:21:02,080
dummies

3615
02:21:07,510 --> 02:21:05,359
dropped from parachutes for testing

3616
02:21:08,710 --> 02:21:07,520
in the early days of the space program

3617
02:21:13,120 --> 02:21:08,720
or

3618
02:21:14,550 --> 02:21:13,130
testing of high atmospheric parachutes

3619
02:21:17,190 --> 02:21:14,560
[Music]

3620
02:21:18,469 --> 02:21:17,200
that was i've looked into that i have

3621
02:21:21,590 --> 02:21:18,479
documents about that

3622
02:21:23,910 --> 02:21:21,600
and that was two years later and

3623
02:21:25,190 --> 02:21:23,920
yes it could explain maybe some of the

3624
02:21:27,510 --> 02:21:25,200
material that

3625
02:21:28,790 --> 02:21:27,520
roswell certainly the air force has

3626
02:21:31,510 --> 02:21:28,800
alluded to it

3627
02:21:32,630 --> 02:21:31,520
to explain as well it doesn't explain

3628
02:21:34,710 --> 02:21:32,640
roswell

3629
02:21:35,670 --> 02:21:34,720
but yes there were things dropping from

3630
02:21:40,309 --> 02:21:35,680
the sky

3631
02:21:43,030 --> 02:21:40,319
in new mexico in in later years uh they

3632
02:21:48,230 --> 02:21:43,040
were not doing that in 1945

3633
02:21:51,110 --> 02:21:48,240
anywhere have you heard of bruno latour

3634
02:21:52,830 --> 02:21:51,120
on the sociology of sciences and the

3635
02:21:54,550 --> 02:21:52,840
relation between human and non-human

3636
02:21:58,070 --> 02:21:54,560
agencies

3637
02:22:02,630 --> 02:21:58,080
um that one comes from matthew nahemi

3638
02:22:06,150 --> 02:22:02,640
i i know the name i have not studied his

3639
02:22:11,510 --> 02:22:10,070
ifran nas si rick ifran nasiric says

3640
02:22:15,270 --> 02:22:11,520
what do you think of the new radar

3641
02:22:15,280 --> 02:22:20,950
uh i haven't seen uh

3642
02:22:24,550 --> 02:22:23,510
i'm not an expert i mean the navy has

3643
02:22:27,429 --> 02:22:24,560
experts who

3644
02:22:27,830 --> 02:22:27,439
are testifying about all of this and so

3645
02:22:31,510 --> 02:22:27,840
on

3646
02:22:35,190 --> 02:22:31,520
i'm certainly not the radar expert um

3647
02:22:37,270 --> 02:22:35,200
the the radar tapes

3648
02:22:38,630 --> 02:22:37,280
on board the limits were confiscated

3649
02:22:40,950 --> 02:22:38,640
within hours

3650
02:22:42,070 --> 02:22:40,960
of the of the incident of the picture

3651
02:22:45,270 --> 02:22:42,080
being taken

3652
02:22:46,870 --> 02:22:45,280
but they were they were backups and i

3653
02:22:47,750 --> 02:22:46,880
understand people have access to the

3654
02:22:51,750 --> 02:22:47,760
backup

3655
02:22:54,550 --> 02:22:51,760
the in in the nimitz incident

3656
02:22:55,590 --> 02:22:54,560
all the radars were advanced radars on

3657
02:23:02,389 --> 02:22:55,600
the princeton

3658
02:23:04,150 --> 02:23:02,399
the the the the nimitz was the aircraft

3659
02:23:06,469 --> 02:23:04,160
carrier

3660
02:23:07,910 --> 02:23:06,479
so the interesting radar data would come

3661
02:23:11,670 --> 02:23:07,920
from the princeton

3662
02:23:15,349 --> 02:23:11,680
and i don't know where it went uh again

3663
02:23:18,150 --> 02:23:15,359
some of those in in some of the cases

3664
02:23:20,950 --> 02:23:18,160
where i was told the air force had

3665
02:23:22,950 --> 02:23:20,960
classified project bluebook data

3666
02:23:25,429 --> 02:23:22,960
it was because of the radar it wasn't

3667
02:23:28,550 --> 02:23:25,439
because of the ufo

3668
02:23:29,429 --> 02:23:28,560
in if somebody reports a light in the

3669
02:23:32,710 --> 02:23:29,439
sky

3670
02:23:35,670 --> 02:23:32,720
and there is a radar reading of it

3671
02:23:36,790 --> 02:23:35,680
from a classified radar the case will be

3672
02:23:38,469 --> 02:23:36,800
classified

3673
02:23:40,469 --> 02:23:38,479
that doesn't mean that the light is

3674
02:23:43,030 --> 02:23:40,479
interesting so again

3675
02:23:44,469 --> 02:23:43,040
you you learn to work with the military

3676
02:23:45,590 --> 02:23:44,479
they have their own way of thinking

3677
02:23:47,830 --> 02:23:45,600
about things

3678
02:23:48,630 --> 02:23:47,840
and if you if you have a classified

3679
02:23:53,270 --> 02:23:48,640
radar

3680
02:23:55,429 --> 02:23:53,280
and it uh it paints something strange

3681
02:23:56,790 --> 02:23:55,439
you're not going to have access to

3682
02:23:58,630 --> 02:23:56,800
something strange

3683
02:24:00,550 --> 02:23:58,640
even though it may or may not be

3684
02:24:03,190 --> 02:24:00,560
interesting because the radar is

3685
02:24:04,630 --> 02:24:03,200
classified

3686
02:24:06,950 --> 02:24:04,640
diggy's journal wants to know if you

3687
02:24:09,590 --> 02:24:06,960
have any thoughts as to why the aliens

3688
02:24:13,270 --> 02:24:09,600
supposedly refer to us as containers or

3689
02:24:21,830 --> 02:24:17,030
um have you heard that before

3690
02:24:24,870 --> 02:24:21,840
no no i've no i'm trying to go from

3691
02:24:27,830 --> 02:24:24,880
the data we've got that we can find and

3692
02:24:29,910 --> 02:24:27,840
they can take to the lab again i mean to

3693
02:24:32,630 --> 02:24:29,920
convince the scientific community

3694
02:24:33,510 --> 02:24:32,640
we have to be able to document where it

3695
02:24:36,150 --> 02:24:33,520
was

3696
02:24:40,830 --> 02:24:36,160
and then to share it with other labs i

3697
02:24:47,190 --> 02:24:44,469
when with this trinity case the

3698
02:24:49,030 --> 02:24:47,200
actual craft when it was being described

3699
02:24:51,590 --> 02:24:49,040
did it look like if it was

3700
02:24:52,070 --> 02:24:51,600
all one piece the reason i asked this is

3701
02:24:53,830 --> 02:24:52,080
that

3702
02:24:55,349 --> 02:24:53,840
bob lazar said when he was working on

3703
02:24:56,950 --> 02:24:55,359
kraft that it looked like

3704
02:24:58,389 --> 02:24:56,960
as if it was made with wax and then

3705
02:25:00,469 --> 02:24:58,399
slightly melted down so there were no

3706
02:25:03,429 --> 02:25:00,479
hard edges it was only

3707
02:25:05,750 --> 02:25:03,439
curvy but all as if it's one lego block

3708
02:25:10,070 --> 02:25:05,760
i i will not comment on

3709
02:25:12,309 --> 02:25:10,080
any statement by mr lazar

3710
02:25:14,070 --> 02:25:12,319
because there are too many things we

3711
02:25:17,190 --> 02:25:14,080
just don't know about

3712
02:25:20,230 --> 02:25:17,200
uh the conditions where

3713
02:25:23,670 --> 02:25:20,240
this may have happened and even who is

3714
02:25:26,630 --> 02:25:23,680
he really is so uh again

3715
02:25:27,990 --> 02:25:26,640
this case is exceptional because we have

3716
02:25:30,630 --> 02:25:28,000
the witnesses

3717
02:25:32,309 --> 02:25:30,640
we have actually we have a false witness

3718
02:25:33,030 --> 02:25:32,319
that we haven't talked about who came

3719
02:25:35,750 --> 02:25:33,040
later

3720
02:25:38,550 --> 02:25:35,760
and could describe sort of nail all of

3721
02:25:42,150 --> 02:25:38,560
the preceding things together

3722
02:25:42,870 --> 02:25:42,160
and she's still alive very you know very

3723
02:25:45,830 --> 02:25:42,880
smart

3724
02:25:46,710 --> 02:25:45,840
woman who has given us a lot of

3725
02:25:50,070 --> 02:25:46,720
descriptions

3726
02:25:50,950 --> 02:25:50,080
of the the samples that we can relate

3727
02:25:54,309 --> 02:25:50,960
back

3728
02:25:57,670 --> 02:25:54,319
the of course we've asked mr padilla

3729
02:25:59,030 --> 02:25:57,680
and you know about the conditions of the

3730
02:26:02,309 --> 02:25:59,040
craft itself

3731
02:26:05,190 --> 02:26:02,319
it didn't seem to be one one piece

3732
02:26:07,190 --> 02:26:05,200
it seemed to have panels but there was

3733
02:26:08,070 --> 02:26:07,200
no nail there were no rivets there were

3734
02:26:11,710 --> 02:26:08,080
no

3735
02:26:13,750 --> 02:26:11,720
together obviously it was

3736
02:26:16,870 --> 02:26:13,760
extraordinarily strong

3737
02:26:20,070 --> 02:26:16,880
because it dug a road

3738
02:26:22,870 --> 02:26:20,080
when it fell after hitting the tower

3739
02:26:24,389 --> 02:26:22,880
one of presumably one of those panels

3740
02:26:27,910 --> 02:26:24,399
was ejected

3741
02:26:31,590 --> 02:26:27,920
and then this thing grounded itself

3742
02:26:32,710 --> 02:26:31,600
and then back a path all the way down

3743
02:26:34,790 --> 02:26:32,720
the hill

3744
02:26:36,870 --> 02:26:34,800
under power i mean an airplane would

3745
02:26:41,349 --> 02:26:36,880
have blown into pieces at that point

3746
02:26:43,030 --> 02:26:41,359
okay it it and the this was described as

3747
02:26:44,790 --> 02:26:43,040
you would need a bulldozer with a

3748
02:26:47,590 --> 02:26:44,800
hundred foot blade

3749
02:26:48,870 --> 02:26:47,600
you know and probably a couple of hours

3750
02:26:52,150 --> 02:26:48,880
to dig that

3751
02:26:53,270 --> 02:26:52,160
road down the in fact that's a road that

3752
02:26:57,270 --> 02:26:53,280
the army used

3753
02:26:59,190 --> 02:26:57,280
in part to drive their truck

3754
02:27:01,429 --> 02:26:59,200
and you know i've been there i mean this

3755
02:27:02,870 --> 02:27:01,439
is a gouge in the earth you know that

3756
02:27:06,230 --> 02:27:02,880
district

3757
02:27:08,469 --> 02:27:06,240
so this thing was heavy it was in a

3758
02:27:09,510 --> 02:27:08,479
neighborhood of anywhere from 5 to 10

3759
02:27:16,469 --> 02:27:09,520
tons

3760
02:27:19,670 --> 02:27:16,479
500 kilograms i mean it was it was heavy

3761
02:27:20,870 --> 02:27:19,680
it was under power and it was able to

3762
02:27:25,030 --> 02:27:20,880
keep its

3763
02:27:28,150 --> 02:27:25,040
uh you know integrity as it was

3764
02:27:29,190 --> 02:27:28,160
plowing that path down the hill and the

3765
02:27:31,750 --> 02:27:29,200
bushes were

3766
02:27:32,550 --> 02:27:31,760
catching fire everything else i mean

3767
02:27:34,309 --> 02:27:32,560
that's

3768
02:27:35,750 --> 02:27:34,319
you know we we know it was a very

3769
02:27:38,790 --> 02:27:35,760
violent scene

3770
02:27:39,750 --> 02:27:38,800
and at the end of it it was it kept its

3771
02:27:41,510 --> 02:27:39,760
integrity

3772
02:27:43,270 --> 02:27:41,520
to the point where the air force could

3773
02:27:46,309 --> 02:27:43,280
or the army could take it

3774
02:27:49,190 --> 02:27:46,319
with a crane and put it sideways

3775
02:27:51,670 --> 02:27:49,200
when they put it sideways the kids had a

3776
02:27:55,510 --> 02:27:51,680
chance to see the underside

3777
02:27:57,750 --> 02:27:55,520
and remember the people who were inside

3778
02:28:01,590 --> 02:27:57,760
said it was 12 to 13 feet

3779
02:28:04,230 --> 02:28:01,600
inside from a flat floor

3780
02:28:05,190 --> 02:28:04,240
well the thing was 15 feet approximately

3781
02:28:07,110 --> 02:28:05,200
high

3782
02:28:09,110 --> 02:28:07,120
so there was two or three feet under the

3783
02:28:11,349 --> 02:28:09,120
floor

3784
02:28:13,510 --> 02:28:11,359
so there was an engine if there is a

3785
02:28:14,790 --> 02:28:13,520
concept of an engine

3786
02:28:18,150 --> 02:28:14,800
that's the only place where it could

3787
02:28:21,110 --> 02:28:18,160
have been the rest of it was empty

3788
02:28:22,230 --> 02:28:21,120
there was no opening on the underside

3789
02:28:25,110 --> 02:28:22,240
there were sort of

3790
02:28:26,870 --> 02:28:25,120
bumps or structures that were not

3791
02:28:28,389 --> 02:28:26,880
damaged by the way

3792
02:28:30,309 --> 02:28:28,399
i mean the thing that didn't have a

3793
02:28:33,429 --> 02:28:30,319
landing gear or anything else

3794
02:28:35,030 --> 02:28:33,439
i mean so it was strong enough that it

3795
02:28:36,309 --> 02:28:35,040
could plow its path through the

3796
02:28:39,590 --> 02:28:36,319
landscape

3797
02:28:42,710 --> 02:28:39,600
without breaking up inside it was

3798
02:28:45,990 --> 02:28:42,720
sort of buffed and you know but

3799
02:28:49,190 --> 02:28:46,000
it was it had its integrity as

3800
02:28:51,670 --> 02:28:49,200
as a piece of metal so

3801
02:28:54,710 --> 02:28:51,680
if you want to think about propulsion

3802
02:28:56,630 --> 02:28:54,720
you know anti-gravity anything you want

3803
02:28:58,790 --> 02:28:56,640
this was certainly not you know

3804
02:29:01,270 --> 02:28:58,800
propelled by any kind of rocket

3805
02:29:02,230 --> 02:29:01,280
or any kind of thing that could have had

3806
02:29:06,550 --> 02:29:02,240
an exhaust

3807
02:29:09,429 --> 02:29:06,560
it had no exhaust ability

3808
02:29:10,550 --> 02:29:09,439
so that's again that's an important

3809
02:29:13,910 --> 02:29:10,560
point

3810
02:29:14,950 --> 02:29:13,920
the again when we know approximately the

3811
02:29:17,670 --> 02:29:14,960
volume

3812
02:29:20,150 --> 02:29:17,680
where there would have been space for a

3813
02:29:23,349 --> 02:29:20,160
propulsion system

3814
02:29:26,550 --> 02:29:23,359
okay where can people find your book

3815
02:29:31,110 --> 02:29:26,560
it's on amazon you know my name uh

3816
02:29:34,870 --> 02:29:31,120
trinity uh the

3817
02:29:38,070 --> 02:29:34,880
it's called trinity the best kept secret

3818
02:29:41,910 --> 02:29:38,080
it's available in paperback and uh

3819
02:29:45,190 --> 02:29:41,920
in as an ibook or as an ebook on

3820
02:29:47,510 --> 02:29:45,200
kindle great great and kevin

3821
02:29:51,270 --> 02:29:47,520
what's next for you and where can people

3822
02:29:54,070 --> 02:29:51,280
find out more about you as well

3823
02:29:56,710 --> 02:29:54,080
um i'm still working with uapx and we're

3824
02:30:01,670 --> 02:29:59,429
continue working to try to get um

3825
02:30:04,230 --> 02:30:01,680
imagery of uaps and

3826
02:30:06,070 --> 02:30:04,240
to understand better what they are um

3827
02:30:09,429 --> 02:30:06,080
where can people find out about me

3828
02:30:12,710 --> 02:30:09,439
my website's probably the best place

3829
02:30:16,070 --> 02:30:12,720
um knuthlab.org

3830
02:30:19,590 --> 02:30:16,080
so my last name lab.org that's it

3831
02:30:22,950 --> 02:30:19,600
thank you very much for inviting me um

3832
02:30:25,030 --> 02:30:22,960
thank you so much man thank you

3833
02:30:26,150 --> 02:30:25,040
i always learned a lot from the

3834
02:30:28,630 --> 02:30:26,160
questions and

3835
02:30:30,230 --> 02:30:28,640
again uh this is not something that one

3836
02:30:33,910 --> 02:30:30,240
person is going to solve

3837
02:30:36,950 --> 02:30:33,920
is going to take you know a team

3838
02:30:40,710 --> 02:30:36,960
of people with different ideas and

3839
02:30:42,309 --> 02:30:40,720
different skills okay thank you so much

3840
02:30:44,230 --> 02:30:42,319
both of you i appreciate

3841
02:30:45,910 --> 02:30:44,240
how generous you've been with your time

3842
02:30:47,990 --> 02:30:45,920
and jock and kevin i'm sure i'll be

3843
02:30:49,270 --> 02:30:48,000
speaking to you again at some point

3844
02:30:53,990 --> 02:30:49,280
perhaps when you have something else to

3845
02:30:58,630 --> 02:30:57,270
i have to define it first

3846
02:31:00,389 --> 02:30:58,640
thank you so much for having me it's

3847
02:31:01,190 --> 02:31:00,399
been a great pleasure to spend this

3848
02:31:14,950 --> 02:31:01,200
thank you

3849
02:31:17,830 --> 02:31:14,960
bye bye bye

3850
02:31:19,750 --> 02:31:17,840
for those people who are still watching

3851
02:31:21,910 --> 02:31:19,760
there is a video with kevin knuth

3852
02:31:23,590 --> 02:31:21,920
and i on the channel which is one of the

3853
02:31:24,870 --> 02:31:23,600
most popular videos on the channel

3854
02:31:26,389 --> 02:31:24,880
please check that out

3855
02:31:27,990 --> 02:31:26,399
if you want to see more conversations

3856
02:31:31,590 --> 02:31:28,000
like this please do consider going to

3857
02:31:34,870 --> 02:31:31,600
patreon.com kurtjmungle i

3858
02:31:36,870 --> 02:31:34,880
am not this is not a ufo channel

3859
02:31:39,110 --> 02:31:36,880
and so i was a bit concerned with the

3860
02:31:40,469 --> 02:31:39,120
huge influx of ufo

3861
02:31:42,550 --> 02:31:40,479
subscribe people who are interested in

3862
02:31:45,270 --> 02:31:42,560
the ufo phenomenon

3863
02:31:47,030 --> 02:31:45,280
who subscribed recently but as i was

3864
02:31:48,469 --> 02:31:47,040
talking to a few

3865
02:31:50,950 --> 02:31:48,479
i mentioned that what my primary

3866
02:31:52,630 --> 02:31:50,960
interest is in is theoretical physics

3867
02:31:53,270 --> 02:31:52,640
and consciousness as well as free will

3868
02:31:57,429 --> 02:31:53,280
and god

3869
02:31:59,270 --> 02:31:57,439
and to me this idea of ufos and aliens

3870
02:32:01,429 --> 02:31:59,280
and so on

3871
02:32:02,710 --> 02:32:01,439
seem to be related somehow so i'm trying

3872
02:32:03,750 --> 02:32:02,720
to fit it into the puzzle and

3873
02:32:06,309 --> 02:32:03,760
investigate it

3874
02:32:08,230 --> 02:32:06,319
as rigorously as i can my background's

3875
02:32:10,630 --> 02:32:08,240
in physics and math

3876
02:32:12,070 --> 02:32:10,640
and unlike my either way as i was

3877
02:32:13,510 --> 02:32:12,080
talking to some of the people who

3878
02:32:15,910 --> 02:32:13,520
recently subscribed and i was telling

3879
02:32:16,870 --> 02:32:15,920
them about my disconcerting thoughts

3880
02:32:19,270 --> 02:32:16,880
feeling like they're going to be

3881
02:32:20,790 --> 02:32:19,280
disappointed by the channel's emphasis

3882
02:32:24,150 --> 02:32:20,800
on psychology philosophy

3883
02:32:25,750 --> 02:32:24,160
physics math and consciousness

3884
02:32:27,910 --> 02:32:25,760
i was told that those who are interested

3885
02:32:30,870 --> 02:32:27,920
in ufos tend to be

3886
02:32:31,830 --> 02:32:30,880
open-minded or open people in general

3887
02:32:35,110 --> 02:32:31,840
and

3888
02:32:37,510 --> 02:32:35,120
i'm hoping that is the case because this

3889
02:32:39,670 --> 02:32:37,520
channel doesn't focus on ufos

3890
02:32:41,429 --> 02:32:39,680
though i talk about it frequently just

3891
02:32:42,630 --> 02:32:41,439
wanted to clear that up

3892
02:32:44,550 --> 02:32:42,640
i'm going to be going through some of

3893
02:32:46,230 --> 02:32:44,560
the comments now thank you all for

3894
02:32:47,910 --> 02:32:46,240
watching i appreciate it so much

3895
02:32:49,270 --> 02:32:47,920
tim wilson wants to know if anyone will

3896
02:32:52,230 --> 02:32:49,280
chat with mick west

3897
02:32:54,550 --> 02:32:52,240
i don't mind chatting with mick west but

3898
02:32:58,309 --> 02:32:54,560
i'm a neophyte when it comes to this

3899
02:33:00,230 --> 02:32:58,319
ufo topic which means that

3900
02:33:01,510 --> 02:33:00,240
i don't know much i'm pretty much an

3901
02:33:03,270 --> 02:33:01,520
amateur getting into this i was

3902
02:33:04,790 --> 02:33:03,280
criticized

3903
02:33:07,349 --> 02:33:04,800
of that when i was speaking to jeremy

3904
02:33:10,630 --> 02:33:07,359
corbell because i was asking somewhat

3905
02:33:12,550 --> 02:33:10,640
jejune questions but to me the point

3906
02:33:13,990 --> 02:33:12,560
is one that i'm interested in this topic

3907
02:33:16,230 --> 02:33:14,000
and who better to talk to than

3908
02:33:18,550 --> 02:33:16,240
someone who or people who are experts in

3909
02:33:21,510 --> 02:33:18,560
it i get the critique that i'm wasting

3910
02:33:23,670 --> 02:33:21,520
some of these extremely intelligent and

3911
02:33:27,190 --> 02:33:23,680
informed people's time

3912
02:33:28,790 --> 02:33:27,200
with my depthless questions

3913
02:33:30,309 --> 02:33:28,800
at least with the jeremy corbell video

3914
02:33:31,349 --> 02:33:30,319
in that case not with the kevin knuth

3915
02:33:34,550 --> 02:33:31,359
video

3916
02:33:35,510 --> 02:33:34,560
and that's a a valid critique the other

3917
02:33:37,910 --> 02:33:35,520
way to view it

3918
02:33:40,150 --> 02:33:37,920
is that there's an advantage into being

3919
02:33:45,510 --> 02:33:40,160
new and seeing from a fresh perspective

3920
02:33:48,630 --> 02:33:46,870
here's an example there's this

3921
02:33:51,750 --> 02:33:48,640
mathematician his name is terry tal one

3922
02:33:55,910 --> 02:33:54,550
and yet he gives talks to elementary

3923
02:33:57,750 --> 02:33:55,920
schools

3924
02:33:59,030 --> 02:33:57,760
okay what question can an elementary

3925
02:34:01,349 --> 02:33:59,040
school

3926
02:34:02,550 --> 02:34:01,359
child ask terry tao that's going to

3927
02:34:05,270 --> 02:34:02,560
inform

3928
02:34:06,790 --> 02:34:05,280
terry towel well let's not talk about

3929
02:34:09,590 --> 02:34:06,800
elementary school let's talk about

3930
02:34:11,190 --> 02:34:09,600
a first-year concept called compactness

3931
02:34:12,630 --> 02:34:11,200
that seems extremely elementary there's

3932
02:34:14,790 --> 02:34:12,640
something called a compact set

3933
02:34:16,710 --> 02:34:14,800
in mathematics but terry tau you ask him

3934
02:34:20,150 --> 02:34:16,720
what's a compact set he actually has

3935
02:34:21,670 --> 02:34:20,160
a three-page pdf which gives insight

3936
02:34:23,190 --> 02:34:21,680
into compactification and that's an

3937
02:34:25,110 --> 02:34:23,200
elementary question so i don't

3938
02:34:27,590 --> 02:34:25,120
particularly mind asking

3939
02:34:28,469 --> 02:34:27,600
cosmetic or vacuous questions although i

3940
02:34:30,150 --> 02:34:28,479
try not to

3941
02:34:33,270 --> 02:34:30,160
i don't particularly mind with regard to

3942
02:34:36,309 --> 02:34:33,280
this ufo topic just because

3943
02:34:39,270 --> 02:34:36,319
while i'm cosmetic and vacuous and i'm

3944
02:34:41,670 --> 02:34:39,280
dipping my toes into it

3945
02:34:43,030 --> 02:34:41,680
please consider talking to travis walton

3946
02:34:45,429 --> 02:34:43,040
i will consider it

3947
02:34:46,150 --> 02:34:45,439
a special thank you to kevin knuth

3948
02:34:49,510 --> 02:34:46,160
because

3949
02:34:52,630 --> 02:34:49,520
he about 15 minutes before recording

3950
02:34:54,230 --> 02:34:52,640
or 30 minutes before he came on he said

3951
02:34:55,670 --> 02:34:54,240
kurt there's a huge problem i'm

3952
02:34:57,349 --> 02:34:55,680
presenting tomorrow and there's some

3953
02:34:58,309 --> 02:34:57,359
issue with the slides and i have to work

3954
02:35:02,870 --> 02:34:58,319
on this now

3955
02:35:04,630 --> 02:35:02,880
and i said i basically

3956
02:35:06,309 --> 02:35:04,640
unfairly forced him i said come on man

3957
02:35:07,270 --> 02:35:06,319
please come to this just join don't

3958
02:35:09,429 --> 02:35:07,280
worry

3959
02:35:10,950 --> 02:35:09,439
if you're thinking about some other

3960
02:35:11,670 --> 02:35:10,960
topic while you're here just be here

3961
02:35:14,710 --> 02:35:11,680
anyway

3962
02:35:15,750 --> 02:35:14,720
because the this was announced that it's

3963
02:35:17,990 --> 02:35:15,760
jacques vallee

3964
02:35:19,990 --> 02:35:18,000
jacques vale sorry and kevin knew so he

3965
02:35:26,389 --> 02:35:20,000
came and if he seemed or appeared